Sub-zero & Kitana VS Scorpion & Mileena VS Reptile & Jade

[Nyx]

Sub-zero & Kitana (w/ steel fans)
vs
Scorpion & Jade (w/ bo staff)
vs
Reptile & Mileena (w/ sai)

An Outerworld arena, with weapons specified and any inherent fighting ability.

[prayerrun]

I personally see the sub zero team winning. reptlile is...well a reptile,(cold makes them sleep) and scorpion...well i just like sub zero better lol.

[Faunus]

Well, Mileena could probably bite off Katana's prissy little head, I really don't see Reptile taking either Scorpion, and Jade would get owned by Sub-Zero. So in the end, I think it comes down to Mileena getting frozen/burned into submission and then a long fight between the remaining two resulting in a win for Scorpion.

[Lsnake]

If Mileena could do that, she wouldn't have gotten killed by Kitana at one point...Reptile and Mileena are the ones well out, and Jade is a non-issue here....the only real challenge to Sub is Scorpion, but Sub could probably win that

[zephiel7]

Sub Zero pwns all.

nuff said.

[Lord Sorgo]

Pretty much.

The end would be a showdown between Scorpion and Sub Zero. I think Sub Zero would freeze Scorpion and then he'd extend his index finger and tap Scorpion's icy frame and shatter him into more than a thousand little shreds of Scorpion sushi.

[IKC]

Except for the fact that no incarnation of Sub-Zero, whether elder or younger, has been able to beat Scorpion since the before the first Mortal Kombat. Scorpion beats and kills the elder in 1, and beats the younger in 4.

And then Scorpion becomes the Champion of the Elder Gods in Deception and tears Onaga (you know, the thing that shrugged off everything Quan Chi, Shang Tsung, and Raiden threw at him simultaneously) apart.

Yeah. He's not losing to Sub-Zero.

[zephiel7]

Except for the fact that no incarnation of Sub-Zero, whether elder or younger, has been able to beat Scorpion since the before the first Mortal Kombat. Scorpion beats and kills the elder in 1, and beats the younger in 4.

And then Scorpion becomes the Champion of the Elder Gods in Deception and tears Onaga (you know, the thing that shrugged off everything Quan Chi, Shang Tsung, and Raiden threw at him simultaneously) apart.

Yeah. He's not losing to Sub-Zero.

You see, everything you just posted. I didn't know any of that.

I was just basing my decision on their powers. Scorpion, well he has this...thing...that comes out of his...well...hand...that...well pretty much brings people to him. He also got his ass kicked by an actor.

Sub Zero on the other hand seems to have more impressive abilities ie., freezing people by just blasting them.

I guess Scorpion wins...

[IKC]

Movie's not canon.

[Lsnake]

Scorpion's got the edge, but Sub's grown stronger since they last fought...and he's mastered the dragon medallion, too.

[IKC]

Sub-Zero has grown stronger but, as pointed out by the fact that he became The Champion of the Elder Gods (and beat the Dragon King and his minions singlehandedly) so has Scorpion. And I would say his improvement is many times that of Sub-Zero's.

[Lsnake]

Champion of the Elder Gods was also Liu Kang's position, and Scorpion had it simply because the options were getting very, very slim considering the earth realm warriors were, for the most part, dead.

Sub has been shown to take over his clan and master the Dragon Amulet. One of the main reason for Scorpion's earlier victory is that he believed Sub had helped destroy the Shirai Ryu, and that rage has fueled him completely.Also, Sub has not fought the Dragon King....he was ambushed by Tarkatans and was kept busy there

[IKC]

Champion of the Elder Gods was also Liu Kang's position,

No it wasn't. His position was Champion of Mortal Kombat.

Huge difference, there.

and Scorpion had it simply because the options were getting very, very slim considering the earth realm warriors were, for the most part, dead.

Bullshit. Prove your "last man on earth" theory.

Sub has been shown to take over his clan and master the Dragon Amulet.

Whoop dee fucking do, Scorpion tore Onaga apart.

Sub-Zero only became master of the Lin Kuei by challenging and beating Sektor. It's not like he invaded their HQ and beat them all.

One of the main reason for Scorpion's earlier victory is that he believed Sub had helped destroy the Shirai Ryu, and that rage has fueled him completely.

Entirely irrelevant, he still was able to do it.

Also, unsupported assumption to claim that this was even a major reason, much less one of the main ones.

Also, Sub has not fought the Dragon King....he was ambushed by Tarkatans and was kept busy there

What makes you think he even could fight the Dragon King? Okay, he was ambushed by Tarkatans and he beat them, which was impressive, but Scorpion beat both a group of Tarkatans and Onaga himself.

Scorpion outperforms the combined strength of Raiden, Quan Chi, and Shang Tsung, and by a huge margin at that. When Sub-Zero can even approach that level, you can say he might have a chance at being able to land a single blow.

Scorpion is the victor.

[Lsnake]

No it wasn't. His position was Champion of Mortal Kombat.

Huge difference, there.

Ah, my mistake


Bullshit. Prove your "last man on earth" theory.
Watch the intro to Deception? Raiden was gone, Quan-chi and Shang Tsung were gone after they had just defeated just about the entirety of Earth's warriors? Did you not see the corpses?


Whoop dee fucking do, Scorpion tore Onaga apart.
Tore him apart? Source for that? And Onaga survived that. We can use the source of Scorp being defeated-several times- by Moloch and Drahman as a point against him then.

Sub-Zero only became master of the Lin Kuei by challenging and beating Sektor. It's not like he invaded their HQ and beat them all.
Sektor was the most powerful of the cybernetic trio. It's not like beating him is something every MK fighter is capable of.



Entirely irrelevant, he still was able to do it.

Also, unsupported assumption to claim that this was even a major reason, much less one of the main ones.
Oh yes, Scorpion fueled by rage at seeing one of the people he thought was the murderer of his clan and family? Need I remind you how Scorpion gets at that? Sub Zero I took Scorpion apart, and defeated him in the Netherrealm., yet Scorpion killed him later on. Doesn't seem to be due to any new, special powers either....Moreover, Sub-Zero has grown far more powerful since he and Scorpion last fought.



What makes you think he even could fight the Dragon King? Okay, he was ambushed by Tarkatans and he beat them, which was impressive, but Scorpion beat both a group of Tarkatans and Onaga himself.
Sub never got the chance to fight Onaga , in fairness. During the whole issue, he was ambushed.

Scorpion outperforms the combined strength of Raiden, Quan Chi, and Shang Tsung, and by a huge margin at that. When Sub-Zero can even approach that level, you can say he might have a chance at being able to land a single blow.
A huge margin? Once again: ONAGA SURVIVED. The details of Scorpion's victory there are an unknown and it didn't last very well. If we want to play 'who beat who.', then Liu Kang's above Scorpion by a hefty margin since he defeated Shao Khan, who was more powerful than any of those three and defeated Onaga to take Outworld.
Sub has shown himself to have the ability to defeated 'many Tarkatans' out of an entire army that attacked him, according to Hotaru's bio. He has commanded the Dragon Amulet, which freezes lesser beings solid....Moreover, Sub's powers have skyrocketed since the last time he and Scorpion fought.
Oh, and btw: The Khan thatQuan and Shang killed wasn't the real one. He left a decoy and went to recruit Goro

[IKC]

after they had just defeated just about the entirety of Earth's warriors?

Bullshit. The Earthrealm/Edenia warriors that were to face the Deadly Alliance (Sonya, Jax, Kitana) were enslaved by the Dragon King and later freed by the spirit of Liu Kang and Ermac.

You fail to establish that he was chosen as a last resort, not because of his prowess. Sub-Zero was around - why wasn't he chosen? *gasp* Could it be that he's not as powerful?

Tore him apart? Source for that? And Onaga survived that

http://mkw.mortalkombatonline.com/mkd/scorpion/

http://mkw.mortalkombatonline.com/mkd/scorpion/end1.jpg

"The Elder Gods had transformed Scorpion into their weapon in order to defeat the Dragon King before his plans of domination unmade the realms. With his enhanced abilities, he tirelessly tracked Onaga through the realms until finally he cornered him in the Nexus. The Dragon King had many allies, but they were of no consequence."

http://mkw.mortalkombatonline.com/mkd/scorpion/end2.jpg

"It was in fact Scorpion who was the true Champion of the Elder Gods, the Enforcer of their will. Only he could stop the menace that threatened all that exists. Only he could defeat the Dragon King."

Onaga likely didn't survive. His presence in Armageddon is likely due to the fact that every Kombatant was resurrected, including Shao Kahn.

We can use the source of Scorp being defeated-several times- by Moloch and Drahman as a point against him then.

Except this is before he becomes Champion of the Elder Gods and he was always driven back by both Oni together. And you can't prove that Sub-Zero could succeed where Scorpion could not.

Sektor was the most powerful of the cybernetic trio. It's not like beating him is something every MK fighter is capable of.

1) Prove that. Where is it stated he's the most powerful between him, Cyrax, and Smoke? It's only stated that he is the first. Common sense would dictate that later models are more capable.

2) It's a far cry from what you seemed to be implying - that Sub-Zero took on his clan singlehandedly.

Oh yes, Scorpion fueled by rage at seeing one of the peopl

e he thought was the murderer of his clan and family?

Reading.

Learn to prove that it was his rage that magically gives him superior fighting abilities. Then come back.

Sub Zero I took Scorpion apart, and defeated him in the Netherrealm., yet Scorpion killed him later on.

Which coincides with what I said originally - No incarnation of Sub-Zero has been able to beat the Scorpion of his time since before the first Mortal Kombat.

Moreover, Sub-Zero has grown far more powerful since he and Scorpion last fought.

And Scorpion, as proven above, grew many times more powerful than that. Scorpion's improvement outpaces Sub-Zero's by leaps and bounds.

Sub never got the chance to fight Onaga , in fairness. During the whole issue, he was ambushed.

Or he wasn't trying to fight Onaga. Or he was traveling with Kenshi and almost got killed by Hotaru.

Are you seriously trying to imply that Sub-Zero can succeed where the combined strength of Raiden, Shang Tsung, and Quan Chi couldn't even make a dent?

A huge margin? Once again: ONAGA SURVIVED.

Once again: No he didn't. See above.

The details of Scorpion's victory there are an unknown and it didn't last very well.

See above. Arguing from ignorance = curbstomp.

If we want to play 'who beat who.', then Liu Kang's above Scorpion by a hefty margin since he defeated Shao Khan, who was more powerful than any of those three and defeated Onaga to take Outworld.

1) If Shao Kahn was more powerful than "these three," then why did it take only two of them (Quan Chi and Shang Tsung) to kill him?

2) Shao Kahn did not defeat Onaga in single Kombat. Konquest lore in MK: Deception states that Shao Kahn poisoned him.

Sub has shown himself to have the ability to defeated 'many Tarkatans' out of an entire army that attacked him, according to Hotaru's bio.

As shown above, not even Onaga and his minions could stop Scorpion. Scorpion outpaces Sub-Zero by a huge margin.

He has commanded the Dragon Amulet, which freezes lesser beings solid....

Bullshit. Frost's own freezing power was what froze her solid, because she did not have as much control as Sub-Zero had when she tried to steal it from him. Get your facts straight. Sub-Zero's use of the amulet is an indication of his control over his own abilities.

Sektor had the amulet before him, by the way. He wasn't frozen. Could it be because the amulet doesn't freeze things?

Moreover, Sub's powers have skyrocketed since the last time he and Scorpion fought.

Scorpion's have grown even farther. Proof above.

Oh, and btw: The Khan thatQuan and Shang killed wasn't the real one. He left a decoy and went to recruit Goro

Havik's ending indicates otherwise - he uses Onaga's heart to resurrect him.

Irrelevant anyway, because Scorpion wildly outperforms the best attempts of three of the most powerful beings in Mortal Kombat lore - two sorcerers and a thunder god. Sub-Zero doesn't come close.

[Lord Sorgo]

About this whole Scorpion VS Sub Zero thing, Noob Saibot (THE Sub Zero) and Scorpion are tied when it comes to fights won and lost.


The younger Sub Zero has the ability to instantly freeze someone on touch to the point where they're encased in ice and cannot move whatsoever.

He can also instantly shoot spikes of ice from his hand to form any shape and he's ultra powerful, not to mention he has mastered his Cyromancer powers.

Not to mention in the ending of Armageddon when Sub Zero becomes so powerful, he becomes THE Ice God.


Let's not forget the fact that this new Sub Zero has defeated Noob Saibot, who has defeated Scorpion in the past. Yeah, the New Sub Zero isn't going to land a punch.

Sounds like it could be the other way around, honestly.

Oh, and the Dragon King was defeated, not killed.

"It was at this time in which Scorpion, the True Champion of the Elder Gods, took action. With enhanced abilities, he traveled through the realms searching for Onaga. The Dragon King's allies were strong, but not enough to defeat him. When Scorpion finally cornered Onaga in the Nexus, they fought and the Specter emerged as the victorious. However, the Dragon King wasn't killed, only defeated. At the same time, the warrior known as Shujinko destroyed all the six Kamidogus."


Arguing from ignorance does suck, IKC.

[Lsnake]

Bullshit. The Earthrealm/Edenia warriors that were to face the Deadly Alliance (Sonya, Jax, Kitana) were enslaved by the Dragon King and later freed by the spirit of Liu Kang and Ermac.

You fail to establish that he was chosen as a last resort, not because of his prowess. Sub-Zero was around - why wasn't he chosen? *gasp* Could it be that he's not as powerful?
Probably, because, unlike Scorpion, the Elder Gods had a carrot to the stick with Scorpion. Sub-Zero was an established neutral in the whole ting: the EG promised Scorpion his family's return.
And the DA crushed the earthrealm warriors, if memory serves


http://mkw.mortalkombatonline.com/mkd/scorpion/

http://mkw.mortalkombatonline.com/mkd/scorpion/end1.jpg

"The Elder Gods had transformed Scorpion into their weapon in order to defeat the Dragon King before his plans of domination unmade the realms. With his enhanced abilities, he tirelessly tracked Onaga through the realms until finally he cornered him in the Nexus. The Dragon King had many allies, but they were of no consequence."

http://mkw.mortalkombatonline.com/mkd/scorpion/end2.jpg

"It was in fact Scorpion who was the true Champion of the Elder Gods, the Enforcer of their will. Only he could stop the menace that threatened all that exists. Only he could defeat the Dragon King."

Onaga likely didn't survive. His presence in Armageddon is likely due to the fact that every Kombatant was resurrected, including Shao Kahn.
Likely, but we don;t know. We see all the group fighting at the start. you're making Scorpion's victory seem effortless as well.



Except this is before he becomes Champion of the Elder Gods and he was always driven back by both Oni together. And you can't prove that Sub-Zero could succeed where Scorpion could not.
No, but absence of proof does not equal proof of absence. Sub might have done just that if it wasn't for the whole "Fighting the Tarkatan army" bit. And Scorpion was more than 'driven back'...in DA, the Oni demolished him completely.



1) Prove that. Where is it stated he's the most powerful between him, Cyrax, and Smoke? It's only stated that he is the first. Common sense would dictate that later models are more capable.
He was the leader of the trio and became Lin Kuei grandmaster shortly thereafter? Common sense dictates Sektor was the most capable of the three.

2) It's a far cry from what you seemed to be implying - that Sub-Zero took on his clan singlehandedly.
I did no such thing. I simply said he took control of the Lin Kuei.



Reading.

Learn to prove that it was his rage that magically gives him superior fighting abilities. Then come back.
Does the state of mind in a fight mean nothing to you?



Which coincides with what I said originally - No incarnation of Sub-Zero has been able to beat the Scorpion of his time since before the first Mortal Kombat.
Probably because this sub and Scorp have only fought once and haven't been enemies since



And Scorpion, as proven above, grew many times more powerful than that. Scorpion's improvement outpaces Sub-Zero's by leaps and bounds.
That's fascinating. Sub grew many times more powerful, too



Or he wasn't trying to fight Onaga. Or he was traveling with Kenshi and almost got killed by Hotaru.
So, this makes tthe whole 'Sub didn't fight Onaga' thing irrelevant, right?

Are you seriously trying to imply that Sub-Zero can succeed where the combined strength of Raiden, Shang Tsung, and Quan Chi couldn't even make a dent?
For starters: in the Annihilation opening, Onaga's jjust another combatant...moreover, these were not Raiden, Quan or Shang at their fullest...Raiden had just been trashed by the two. Shang had just been slamme into the dirt by Quan who couldn't be at his best after taking both of simultaneously



Once again: No he didn't. See above.



See above. Arguing from ignorance = curbstomp.
Once more: Irrelevant details when both grew stronger and sub performed something while Sub was much more busy.



1) If Shao Kahn was more powerful than "these three," then why did it take only two of them (Quan Chi and Shang Tsung) to kill him?
Funny. In his ending in Deception, it reveals they killed a decoy.

2) Shao Kahn did not defeat Onaga in single Kombat. Konquest lore in MK: Deception states that Shao Kahn poisoned him.
Ah, didn't know that



As shown above, not even Onaga and his minions could stop Scorpion. Scorpion outpaces Sub-Zero by a huge margin.
Irrelevant as Sub was never there



Bullshit. Frost's own freezing power was what froze her solid, because she did not have as much control as Sub-Zero had when she tried to steal it from him. Get your facts straight. Sub-Zero's use of the amulet is an indication of his control over his own abilities.
Exactly: Sub's control is able to control an amulet that causes others to freeze solid

Sektor had the amulet before him, by the way. He wasn't frozen. Could it be because the amulet doesn't freeze things?
Or could it be because Sektor's high tier and extremely powerful?



Scorpion's have grown even farther. Proof above.
Sub has not been given adequate chance to express said abilities. In his Annihilation ending, Blaze's power, combined with his own, turns him into an ice god...that implies quite a bit of ability without Blaze's own power



Havik's ending indicates otherwise - he uses Onaga's heart to resurrect him.
It's only a possibility that Havik uses the DK's heart. It's a good theory, but a theory nonetheless, to cover for the idiotic mess that was Annihilation.

Irrelevant anyway, because Scorpion wildly outperforms the best attempts of three of the most powerful beings in Mortal Kombat lore - two sorcerers and a thunder god. Sub-Zero doesn't come close.
Before or after they'd all finished beating one another into the dirt? If those three had been at full power, think things would've been the same?

[IKC]

Noob Saibot (THE Sub Zero) and Scorpion are tied when it comes to fights won and lost.

Irrelevant. What matters is their most recent fight, when Scorpion won and killed him.

The younger Sub Zero has the ability to instantly freeze someone on touch to the point where they're encased in ice and cannot move whatsoever.

He can also instantly shoot spikes of ice from his hand to form any shape and he's ultra powerful, not to mention he has mastered his Cyromancer powers.

Whoopee. Scorpion's an undead ninja spectre with great command over fire and can teleport.

Let's list irrelevant abilities and completely ignore the fact that Scorpion's canon accomplishment far outpaces Sub-Zero's shown abilities!

Not to mention in the ending of Armageddon when Sub Zero becomes so powerful, he becomes THE Ice God.

Please don't make me laugh.

1) Armageddon endings are not canon until we know which one occured.

2) Several entities become gods in their endings, among them Liu Kang and fucking Tanya. This is an expression of the power released by Blaze's death, not their own.

Let's not forget the fact that this new Sub Zero has defeated Noob Saibot, who has defeated Scorpion in the past.

Oh yeah?

1) When did he defeat Noob Saibot?

2) When did Noob defeat Scorpion? My money's on never as Noob. As I recall, they've never canonically met after Sub-Zero's death.

Yeah, the New Sub Zero isn't going to land a punch.

Pretty much.

"It was at this time in which Scorpion, the True Champion of the Elder Gods, took action. With enhanced abilities, he traveled through the realms searching for Onaga. The Dragon King's allies were strong, but not enough to defeat him. When Scorpion finally cornered Onaga in the Nexus, they fought and the Specter emerged as the victorious. However, the Dragon King wasn't killed, only defeated. At the same time, the warrior known as Shujinko destroyed all the six Kamidogus."

Yeah, I'm just going to take your word for it. For all I know, you just typed that up or found it from Wikipedia.

Please.

Sub-Zero was an established neutral in the whole ting: the EG promised Scorpion his family's return.

Scorpion was an established neutral as well. Similarly, there are plenty of carrots to be offered to Sub-Zero: Noob Saibot's redemption, the resurrection of the cryomancers, etc. Gee, I wonder why they didn't go to Sub-Zero...

And the DA crushed the earthrealm warriors, if memory serves

Memory does not serve. Watch Sindel or Ermac's endings: Kitana, Jax, Sonya, etc. are all under the control of the Dragon King.

you're making Scorpion's victory seem effortless as well.

I'm making it effortless? Did you not read the text? It was effortless: that is taken verbatim from his Deception ending.

No, but absence of proof does not equal proof of absence. Sub might have done just that if it wasn't for the whole "Fighting the Tarkatan army" bit.

It was not an army, it was an ambush party. Your ridiculous assertion that Sub-Zero, who was not the Champion of the Elder Gods, could outperform Raiden, Shang Tsung, and Quan Chi is fanboyism at its lowest.

And Scorpion was more than 'driven back'...in DA, the Oni demolished him completely.

Bullshit. All they did was pick him up and throw him into Shang Tsung's soulnado, which they believed would kill him. That's a far cry from your truth-stretching nonsense.

He (Sektor) was the leader of the trio

No he wasn't. Prove up.

and became Lin Kuei grandmaster shortly thereafter? Common sense dictates Sektor was the most capable of the three.

Common sense would dictate it if you ignore facts.

1) Cyrax got lost in the desert and never rejoined with the Lin Kuei. He joined the Outer World Investigation Agency with Jax and Sonya in Mortal Kombat 4.

2) Smoke got captured by Shao Kahn's forces during the events of Mortal Kombat 3 and was locked away in his fortress. He was absent for two or three games until Noob found and reprogrammed him.

Lots of competition Sektor had, there.

I did no such thing. I simply said he took control of the Lin Kuei.

Please. "Taking control of the Lin Kuei" he may have done, but even stating that is puffing up his resume. All Sub-Zero had to do was beat Sektor, something he had already done twice in the past.

Does the state of mind in a fight mean nothing to you?

Ha! So rage outpaces self-preservation?

Probably because this sub and Scorp have only fought once and haven't been enemies since

Yet it establishes that Scorpion starts out on a higher tier and improved at a greater clip than Sub-Zero.

That's fascinating. Sub grew many times more powerful, too

Good God almighty.

For the umpteenth time, I am not denying that Sub-Zero grew powerful by Deception. What I'm saying is that Scorpion's improvement wildly outperforms Sub-Zero's as shown by his status as Champion of the Elder Gods and the fact that he beat the Dragon King.

So, this makes tthe whole 'Sub didn't fight Onaga' thing irrelevant, right?

By this logic, Stryker could beat Onaga and since they didn't fight it could've happened.

For starters: in the Annihilation opening, Onaga's jjust another combatant.

Could that be because the Kamidogu no longer exist and his only hopes of making himself the One Being lie in the energy released by Blaze's death?

moreover, these were not Raiden, Quan or Shang at their fullest...Raiden had just been trashed by the two. Shang had just been slamme into the dirt by Quan who couldn't be at his best after taking both of simultaneously

This is bullshit. Both Raiden and Shang Tsung were dead (Shang Tsung had his neck snapped, FFS). Yet, they came back to life as the Dragon King made his entrance. Somehow I think if they can overcome the trivial state of being dead, their wounds and fatigue from the previous fight might just be a nonissue.

Also, Raiden released his godly essence which completely obliterated the surrounding area, the Deadly Alliance, and himself, yet it didn't even scratch the Dragon King. You seriously want to argue that Sub-Zero can outperform that?

Once more: Irrelevant details when both grew stronger and sub performed something while Sub was much more busy.

But you have failed to prove that Sub-Zero's improvement even approaches that of Scorpion.

Funny. In his ending in Deception, it reveals they killed a decoy.

No, his ending indicates that it was a clone. That's a far cry from a decoy.

Even so, Havik's ending states that he used Onaga's heart to resurrect Shao Kahn. This makes a good bit of sense when one makes the likely assumption that Havik, as closely aligned to Chaos as he is, wants Armageddon to occur.

Irrelevant as Sub was never there

By this logic, Stryker or Mokap could've beaten the Dragon King.

Exactly: Sub's control is able to control an amulet that causes others to freeze solid

For fuck's sake.

Learn to read: The amulet did not freeze Frost. The amulet does not have freezing power of its own. Frost was consumed by her own freezing power because she did not have the discipline to control it when she touched the amulet.

Or could it be because Sektor's high tier and extremely powerful?

No, because the amulet doesn't freeze people, as I've proven twice now.

Sub has not been given adequate chance to express said abilities.

Neither has Stryker. Going to say he can beat Deception's Onaga as well?

I haven't been given the chance to express said abilities. By what you laughingly call logic, I have a chance of defeating Onaga.

By the way, this flies in the face of canon: "It was in fact Scorpion who was the true Champion of the Elder Gods, the Enforcer of their will. Only he could stop the menace that threatened all that exists. Only he could defeat the Dragon King."

Emphasis mine.

In his Annihilation ending, Blaze's power, combined with his own, turns him into an ice god...that implies quite a bit of ability without Blaze's own power

I've already answered this ridiculous assertion above.

Nitara turns into a blood goddess in her ending. ZOMG SHE MUST BE TEH UBER!

And it's not Blaze's power that does anything in any of the endings. It's the power released by his death - he's a trigger, nothing more.

It's only a possibility that Havik uses the DK's heart. It's a good theory, but a theory nonetheless, to cover for the idiotic mess that was Annihilation.

I would say it is a good theory. And yes, Armageddon (that's what you meant, right? Annihilation (movie) was a mess too) was a mess.

Frankly, I'm tired of Scorpion being screwed over, which was why Deception was so badass.

Before or after they'd all finished beating one another into the dirt?

They killed each other. See above.

If those three had been at full power, think things would've been the same?

Who's to say they weren't at full power? This isn't Dragon Ball Z or something, we don't know how or even if fatigue plays in to the spells the sorcerers cast or the explosion resulting from the release of Raiden's godhood.

That last sentence can be misconstrued for hilarity. I'll leave it for the lulz.

[Lord Sorgo]

Oh, my mistake, IKC . . .

Sub Zero kicked Scorpions ass TWICE whereas Scorpion only succeeded once.

"Both Scorpion and Sub-Zero succeeded in getting to their destination, but the two met each other reaching for the same map they were sent out to acquire. The two rival warriors fought, with Sub-Zero gaining the advantage. As Scorpion lay on the ground defeated, Sub-Zero decapitated him and left his corpse where it fell. Scorpion's soul would fall into the pits of the Netherealm itself; obssessed with revenge, he became a ninja spectre. Scorpion learned that the Lin Kuei, following his death, had also massacred his entire clan and family. Fueled by an undying rage and thirst for retribution, he vowed to kill Sub-Zero in retaliation for his own murder.

Scorpion would not meet Sub-Zero again until a brief encounter in the Netherealm, where Sub-Zero had been sent by Raiden to regain the amulet from Shinnok and Quan Chi. The two fought, but Sub-Zero defeated Scorpion again and escaped the undead assassin's wrath. Following his return to Earth, Sub-Zero was later invited to participate in Shang Tsung's tournament of Mortal Kombat - unknown to the Lin Kuei warrior, Scorpion had been invited as well. The two met on Shang Tsung's boat, at which point Scorpion grabbed Sub-Zero by the throat and said "You killed me in cold blood exactly two years ago, to this day, but my demons have allowed me to avenge my death. I could kill you at this moment, but I am not a murderer. We will meet at the tournament, and then, Lin Kuei, you will pay with your life."

While Scorpion and Sub-Zero did not meet during the actual tournament, they did meet in the closing moments of Mortal Kombat, and true to his word the hell-bent spectre fought Sub-Zero in another fight to the death. Proving to be too strong and powerful for the Lin Kuei warrior, Scorpion slew his nemesis and avenged his death. With that, he violently burst into flames and ash, returning to the Netherealm."

[IKC]

Jesus Christ Sorgo, learn to read.

No incarnation of Sub-Zero has been able to beat Scorpion since before the first Mortal Kombat.

Next time I have to type this you'll get some verbal lashings. What you've posted is entirely irrelevant as, *GASP*, IT OCCURED BEFORE THE FIRST MORTAL KOMBAT. The only relevant piece of information is that Scorpion grew too strong for the object of your worship by Mortal Kombat, which I'm surprised that you had the balls to post.

And then Scorpion beats the younger Sub-Zero in MK4. And then Scorpion wildly outpaces Sub-Zero's improvement since then.

Result? Scorpion wins.

[Lord Sorgo]

No incarnation of Sub-Zero has been able to beat Scorpion since before the first Mortal Kombat.

This could be because they have not fought since.

So, Scorpion hasn't beat Sub Zero since before the first MK.

You're showing a bias. How funny.

[Lsnake]

Irrelevant. What matters is their most recent fight, when Scorpion won and killed him.

This is also irrelevant since neither are the same person back when. How did scorp kill him, anyways?


Whoopee. Scorpion's an undead ninja spectre with great command over fire and can teleport.

Let's list irrelevant abilities and completely ignore the fact that Scorpion's canon accomplishment far outpaces Sub-Zero's shown abilities!
Such as?



Please don't make me laugh.

1) Armageddon endings are not canon until we know which one occured.
Thought I heard somewhere the Scorpion, Sub and Taven ones were?

2) Several entities become gods in their endings, among them Liu Kang and fucking Tanya. This is an expression of the power released by Blaze's death, not their own.
Liu becomes protector of Earthrealm after defeating Raiden, that doesn't seem to equate to 'God.'



Oh yeah?

1) When did he defeat Noob Saibot?

2) When did Noob defeat Scorpion? My money's on never as Noob. As I Yep. Neither of them have met since sub became the head of the Brotherhood.



Yeah, I'm just going to take your word for it. For all I know, you just typed that up or found it from Wikipedia.

Please.

Yeah, I'm curious where that is from?


Scorpion was an established neutral as well. Similarly, there are plenty of carrots to be offered to Sub-Zero: Noob Saibot's redemption, the resurrection of the cryomancers, etc. Gee, I wonder why they didn't go to Sub-Zero...
If it was so easy to reach into the netherealm, the Gods would've done that a long time back. And why would Sub want the cryomancers back? And how would the Elder Gods even TOUCH Noob? He's pretty much pure evil



Memory does not serve. Watch Sindel or Ermac's endings: Kitana, Jax, Sonya, etc. are all under the control of the Dragon King.
Look at the beginning of Deadly Alliance: The DA defeated all of Earth Realm's warriors....you see the bodies strewn about outside



I'm making it effortless? Did you not read the text? It was effortless: that is taken verbatim from his Deception ending.

And where do you see effortless? His allies were of no consequence, not Onaga himself


It was not an army, it was an ambush party. Your ridiculous assertion that Sub-Zero, who was not the Champion of the Elder Gods, could outperform Raiden, Shang Tsung, and Quan Chi is fanboyism at its lowest.
How many Tarkatans do you think would be sen after Sub Zero? Ten? Twenty? Several hundred? Tarkants are little more than fodder a sShaolin Monks showed. And for the last time: None of those three were at their best



Bullshit. All they did was pick him up and throw him into Shang Tsung's soulnado, which they believed would kill him. That's a far cry from your truth-stretching nonsense.
Oh, so Scorpion kindly offered to allow them to do so?
No, they defeated him first.



No he wasn't. Prove up.
Sektor was the first to be transformed, he was the one who later became Grandmaster, he was the one who bested Smoke originally after the other two ran and Cyrax was certainly implicated as the lesser of the pair....in the



Common sense would dictate it if you ignore facts.

1) Cyrax got lost in the desert and never rejoined with the Lin Kuei. He joined the Outer World Investigation Agency with Jax and Sonya in Mortal Kombat 4.
Which has what to do with anything?

2) Smoke got captured by Shao Kahn's forces during the events of Mortal Kombat 3 and was locked away in his fortress. He was absent for two or three games until Noob found and reprogrammed him.

Lots of competition Sektor had, there.
Yep. Just them, who were programmed subservient as was and the whole 'become Grandmaster' thing...



Please. "Taking control of the Lin Kuei" he may have done, but even stating that is puffing up his resume. All Sub-Zero had to do was beat Sektor, something he had already done twice in the past.
And beating Sektor is an averagr, run of the mill feat?



Ha! So rage outpaces self-preservation? When you're an undead spectre with something to fight for? You're telling me one's mindset in that case would have no bearing on the fight?




Yet it establishes that Scorpion starts out on a higher tier and improved at a greater clip than Sub-Zero.
Mmhmm



Good God almighty.

For the umpteenth time, I am not denying that Sub-Zero grew powerful by Deception. What I'm saying is that Scorpion's improvement wildly outperforms Sub-Zero's as shown by his status as Champion of the Elder Gods and the fact that he beat the Dragon King.
I'm sorry, but weren't you the one decrying feat wars all that time ago? Scorpion's done more. However, Scorpion was delivered to the Elder Gods on by the Oni, he became stronger- as did Sub- and Scorpion managed to find and defeat Onaga first. If Liu Kang or Sub got there first, hypothetically, would it have been the same or different?



By this logic, Stryker could beat Onaga and since they didn't fight it could've happened.
Stryker is not one of the top MK fighters or mainstays



Could that be because the Kamidogu no longer exist and his only hopes of making himself the One Being lie in the energy released by Blaze's death? Would the lack of Kamidogu decrease his power?




This is bullshit. Both Raiden and Shang Tsung were dead (Shang Tsung had his neck snapped, FFS). Yet, they came back to life as the Dragon King made his entrance. Somehow I think if they can overcome the trivial state of being dead, their wounds and fatigue from the previous fight might just be a nonissue.
Can Raiden even die? We saw him struck down by the duo, that was it. I don't recall Quan actually killing Shang either.

Also, Raiden released his godly essence which completely obliterated the surrounding area, the Deadly Alliance, and himself, yet it didn't even scratch the Dragon King. You seriously want to argue that Sub-Zero can outperform that?
How'd Scorp beat Onaga then, I'm curious? I'd hardly call him more powerful than a god.



But you have failed to prove that Sub-Zero's improvement even approaches that of Scorpion.
There's nothing to prove as it all rides on assumptions We haven't seen Sub in action completely since MK 4



No, his ending indicates that it was a clone. That's a far cry from a decoy.
The point remains: The Shao killed by the DA was not Shao Khan....the real Shao Khan was off to see and recruit Goro

Even so, Havik's ending states that he used Onaga's heart to resurrect Shao Kahn. This makes a good bit of sense when one makes the likely assumption that Havik, as closely aligned to Chaos as he is, wants Armageddon to occur.
Yes. However, Khan's ending states it was not really him who was killed by the Alliance



By this logic, Stryker or Mokap could've beaten the Dragon King.
Are we going to use low tier fighters?



For fuck's sake.

Learn to read: The amulet did not freeze Frost. The amulet does not have freezing power of its own. Frost was consumed by her own freezing power because she did not have the discipline to control it when she touched the amulet.
Because she could not control the Medallion, her powers didn't up and magically fail her at that moment.


No, because the amulet doesn't freeze people, as I've proven twice now.
The point is: The Medallion requires a great deal of ability to use. Because Frost did not have that, she was overwhelmed by her own powers and nearly killed



Neither has Stryker. Going to say he can beat Deception's Onaga as well?
Stryker's anything more than a cop from earth? stop using him as an example.

I haven't been given the chance to express said abilities. By what you laughingly call logic, I have a chance of defeating Onaga.
This is rather laughable. Are you a top Lin Kuei warriors with magical freezing abilities?
Somehow I doubt it

By the way, this flies in the face of canon: "It was in fact Scorpion who was the true Champion of the Elder Gods, the Enforcer of their will. Only he could stop the menace that threatened all that exists. Only he could defeat the Dragon King."


Emphasis mine.
Indeed. However, this does not mean that Scorpion is invincible.
I'll grant that Onaga would've beaten any other contender



I've already answered this ridiculous assertion above.

Nitara turns into a blood goddess in her ending. ZOMG SHE MUST BE TEH UBER!
That's great. Sub's, Scorp's and Taven's seem to have a great deal more chance.
And btw, why is Scorpion not ripping through the fighters in the opening of Annihilation?

And it's not Blaze's power that does anything in any of the endings. It's the power released by his death - he's a trigger, nothing more.
As you will



I would say it is a good theory. And yes, Armageddon (that's what you meant, right? Annihilation (movie) was a mess too) was a mess.
Armageddon, yes.

Frankly, I'm tired of Scorpion being screwed over, which was why Deception was so badass.
I'd have to say Scorpion's my favorite of all the fighters. Badass, always has been....he's always had a damn fine storyline as well




They killed each other. See above.

Did any of them physically DIE? I don't think death is that simple to return from in MK...


Who's to say they weren't at full power? This isn't Dragon Ball Z or something, we don't know how or even if fatigue plays in to the spells the sorcerers cast or the explosion resulting from the release of Raiden's godhood.
I'm just saying after a huge battle like that, where all of the three sustained damaged, there's no reason they'd all be at full power

That last sentence can be misconstrued for hilarity. I'll leave it for the lulz.
Do you always need to be such a prick? Seriously, now.

[IKC]

L2read entire posts before revealing your ignorance, Sorgo.

[Lsnake]

I'm actually changing my view on that....Scorp likely would win, but it'd be a hard victory.

[IKC]

This is also irrelevant since neither are the same person back when. How did scorp kill him, anyways?

It's relevant in that neither Sub-Zero has shown the power to best Scorpion since this moment. He killed him in single kombat during the closing moments of the Tournament. The excerpt that I imagine that Sorgo pulled from Wikipedia is largely accurate.

Such as?

What do you mean such as?

Thought I heard somewhere the Scorpion, Sub and Taven ones were?

That's ridiculous. All the Armageddon endings are mutually exclusive because they all hinge on their respective characters defeating Blaze.

Liu becomes protector of Earthrealm after defeating Raiden, that doesn't seem to equate to 'God.'

Yes it does, because Protector of a realm is a post only granted to gods (Raiden, Fujin, Bo'Rai Cho in his ending). My point stands regardless of the nit picked.

Shortly after this your post becomes hard to decipher.

If it was so easy to reach into the netherealm, the Gods would've done that a long time back.

Uh, what would they have done it for?

And why would Sub want the cryomancers back?

Could it be because he's descended from them?

Point stands, your assertion that there was nothing the Elder Gods could offer Sub-Zero stretches the limits of credulity and is patently false. They chose Scorpion, not Sub-Zero.

Look at the beginning of Deadly Alliance: The DA defeated all of Earth Realm's warriors....you see the bodies strewn about outside

No, as I recall you see unidentifiable bodies strewn outside, and this doesn't mean that the Deadly Alliance magically took on all of these warriors by themselves. As you might recall, they had the services of the Tarkatans, Kano, an Outworld army, and two Oni to call on.

And where do you see effortless? His allies were of no consequence, not Onaga himself

I see effortless when I look at the second image and see an uninjured Scorpion literally leaping through Onaga's body.

Point stands: Scorpion wildly outperforms the best efforts of Quan Chi, Shang Tsung, and Raiden.

How many Tarkatans do you think would be sen after Sub Zero? Ten? Twenty? Several hundred? Tarkants are little more than fodder a sShaolin Monks showed. And for the last time: None of those three were at their best

Gameplay is not canon. Gameplay in Mortal Kombat can have fighters fighting themselves. Does that mean it happens?

The ambush party did not approach numbers in the hundreds. My estimate would be somewhere between fifteen and thirty.

I'm not saying that Sub-Zero's accomplishment is not impressive, but it doesn't hold a candle to Scorpion's, as you must recognize.

Oh, so Scorpion kindly offered to allow them to do so?
No, they defeated him first.

http://www.mortalkombatwarehouse.com/mkda/scorpion/end2.gif

Frankly, this is an irrelevant point as it occurs before he becomes Champion of the Elder Gods.

Oh, you do realize that Shang Tsung kept the two Oni around as protection against Quan Chi, right? So are you going to assert that Sub-Zero (as of DA) could defeat these two by himself? I'd love to see it.

Sektor was the first to be transformed, he was the one who later became Grandmaster,

Two irrelevant points, especially as I proved he had no serious competition for the position of Grandmaster.

he was the one who bested Smoke originally after the other two ran

Oh really? Show me some canon evidence.

and Cyrax was certainly implicated as the lesser of the pair

Oh really? Show me some canon evidence.

Which has what to do with anything?

Which has everything to do with the fact that Sektor had no competition from big names for the position of Grandmaster.

Yep. Just them, who were programmed subservient as was and the whole 'become Grandmaster' thing...

What the hell are you talking about? This is incoherent.

And beating Sektor is an averagr, run of the mill feat?

Yeah, actually. What's Sektor done besides become Grandmaster of the Lin Kuei when nobody was in the Lin Kuei but a bunch of no-names?

Not much besides fail to kill Sub-Zero when he had the help of two other cyborg ninjas. Scorpion certainly outperforms him here.

When you're an undead spectre with something to fight for? You're telling me one's mindset in that case would have no bearing on the fight?

Yet we're discounting the fact that Sub-Zero would be fighting for his very life? Okay, Scorpion has something to fight for, and he's being driven by revenge. That's fine. But Sub-Zero in this situation was driven by self-preservation.

Oh yeah, learn to prove that one's mindset has an appreciable effect on their natural skill in battle, or that rage somehow trumps self-preservation.

Mmhmm

So if you agree with this, what are you arguing for?

Stryker is not one of the top MK fighters or mainstays

Irrelevant. Spotlight is a logical fallacy. The state of a person having notoriety only proves that they have notoriety. It doesn't make them instantly superior in their field to all those who don't.

Would the lack of Kamidogu decrease his power?

We don't know. The only thing we are sure that the Kamidogu can do is, when fused by Shinnok's amulet, merge all the realms into one and recreate the One Being.

Can Raiden even die? We saw him struck down by the duo, that was it.

I'd say yes, though as shown in Deception he's like Scorpion in that he comes back.

Though, nobody ever really dies in Mortal Kombat, as proven by, unfortunately, Armageddon.

I'd argue that he was killed by the Deadly Alliance. We saw his eyes dim, etc. He didn't get back up until the Dragon King approached, and this ties in to my point about Shang Tsung.

I don't recall Quan actually killing Shang either.

Dude. He broke Shang Tsung's neck, much in the same way Shang broke Liu Kang's. Shang Tsung was dead.

How'd Scorp beat Onaga then, I'm curious? I'd hardly call him more powerful than a god.

But he clearly is more powerful than a god, and two sorcerers, because he succeeded where they failed. He was made Champion of the Elder Gods and granted enhanced abilities by them. That's how he did it. You can argue that it shouldn't have happened all day but it's a separate discussion - it did happen.

There's nothing to prove as it all rides on assumptions We haven't seen Sub in action completely since MK 4

Uh, the best assumption leads to the conclusion that I've been arguing: Scorpion can beat Sub-Zero and it won't be close.

And yes we have seen him in action. Hell, Frost managed to jump him.

Are we going to use low tier fighters?

I'm using low tier fighters to illustrate a point: Scorpion's in a tier of his own, even higher than the likes of Deception Onaga. Sub-Zero simply cannot compete.

Because she could not control the Medallion, her powers didn't up and magically fail her at that moment.

The point is: The Medallion requires a great deal of ability to use. Because Frost did not have that, she was overwhelmed by her own powers and nearly killed

But that wasn't your original point. You kept arguing that the medallion freezes people, which it doesn't. From what we can see, it enhances the powers of those like Sub-Zero. Sub-Zero was at a state where he could control it - Frost was not. Yes, Sub-Zero is good, but this does not put him equal or above to Scorpion.

Stryker's anything more than a cop from earth? stop using him as an example.

I'll continue to use him as an example as long as you continue to point out that Sub-Zero didn't get a chance to fight Onaga, and try to imply that if he did he could win.

Indeed. However, this does not mean that Scorpion is invincible.
I'll grant that Onaga would've beaten any other contender

Okay. So why are you arguing that Sub-Zero could beat him?

That's great. Sub's, Scorp's and Taven's seem to have a great deal more chance.

Given that all three are better fighters than Nitara, yes, but we can make no judgments on which one occurs.

If you want the storyline to continue, you can say that Scorpion's happens, as he doesn't end up destroying the realms or anything.

And btw, why is Scorpion not ripping through the fighters in the opening of Annihilation?

Probably because the opening is not meant to be a canon depiction, else why is he trying to kill Sub-Zero? Else why does Onaga pick up Shao Kahn and fly away from the pyramid?

The opening's silly.

Did any of them physically DIE? I don't think death is that simple to return from in MK...

Yeah. I would say for damned certain that Shang at least died. Argued this above.

And anyway, how can you say that it's not so simple to return from? Tell that to Scorpion, Raiden, Liu Kang, Johnny Cage, Kung Lao, Goro, Shao Kahn, Onaga, etc.

Hell, a good portion of the fighters have died at least once.

I'm just saying after a huge battle like that, where all of the three sustained damaged, there's no reason they'd all be at full power

Yeah, but two of the three came back to life with no signs of injury. Those two, at least, are at a good deal of their power.

Shang, incidentally, is reliant on souls to live and grow powerful. He was standing right next to a virtually unlimited supply of souls (the soulnado).

They were as close to full power as can be expected, and their power at this point definitely is greater than Sub-Zero's.

Do you always need to be such a prick? Seriously, now.

What the hell are you talking about?

I left my own statement for the lulz. Here, I'll point it out: "we don't know how or even if fatigue plays in to the spells the sorcerers cast or the explosion resulting from the release of Raiden's godhood."

That is what could be misconstrued for hilarity. I don't see how that makes me a prick :3

[Lsnake]

IKC, if you saw my last post, your huge one was sort of unnecessary.

And my bad on the prick thing. Apologies there.

[IKC]

Yeah, I didn't see it until I posted. Was busy writing it.

[Lsnake]

It's relevant in that neither Sub-Zero has shown the power to best Scorpion since this moment. He killed him in single kombat during the closing moments of the Tournament. The excerpt that I imagine that Sorgo pulled from Wikipedia is largely accurate.
Yeah, but that's Sub Zero 1....AKA NOOB


That's ridiculous. All the Armageddon endings are mutually exclusive because they all hinge on their respective characters defeating Blaze.
Just what I heard. Was looking for clarification



Yes it does, because Protector of a realm is a post only granted to gods (Raiden, Fujin, Bo'Rai Cho in his ending). My point stands regardless of the nit picked.
It just doesn't seem to gel with Liu there


Uh, what would they have done it for?
You said Noob's redemption would be a carrot to the stick for Sub?



Could it be because he's descended from them?

Point stands, your assertion that there was nothing the Elder Gods could offer Sub-Zero stretches the limits of credulity and is patently false. They chose Scorpion, not Sub-Zero.
That could also do with the fact about the Soulnado
And why would Sub want the crymancers back? sub, above anyone else, knows the dangers inherent in bringing people back from the dead


No, as I recall you see unidentifiable bodies strewn outside, and this doesn't mean that the Deadly Alliance magically took on all of these warriors by themselves. As you might recall, they had the services of the Tarkatans, Kano, an Outworld army, and two Oni to call on.
Shunjiko says the Earthrealm warriors were also defeated, as well.



I see effortless when I look at the second image and see an uninjured Scorpion literally leaping through Onaga's body.
Being uninjured doesn't make it effortless...


The ambush party did not approach numbers in the hundreds. My estimate would be somewhere between fifteen and thirty.
Do we have a canon number?

I'm not saying that Sub-Zero's accomplishment is not impressive, but it doesn't hold a candle to Scorpion's, as you must recognize.
see my last post: Recognized.



http://www.mortalkombatwarehouse.com/mkda/scorpion/end2.gif

Frankly, this is an irrelevant point as it occurs before he becomes Champion of the Elder Gods.
Just as irrelevant as Sub's former defeat

Oh, you do realize that Shang Tsung kept the two Oni around as protection against Quan Chi, right? So are you going to assert that Sub-Zero (as of DA) could defeat these two by himself? I'd love to see it.
Who said that?



Two irrelevant points, especially as I proved he had no serious competition for the position of Grandmaster.
I'd call Sektor some competition there.



Which has everything to do with the fact that Sektor had no competition from big names for the position of Grandmaster.
Because they're not named, they suck? Didn't we see the Lin Kuei Grandmaster in Mythologies?




Yeah, actually. What's Sektor done besides become Grandmaster of the Lin Kuei when nobody was in the Lin Kuei but a bunch of no-names?
The Lin Kuei are an elite clan of killers....honestly, becoming a grandmaster sets Sektor above most kombatants, anyways....I mean, seriously, compared to....Stryker? Kabal? Kobra?

Not much besides fail to kill Sub-Zero when he had the help of two other cyborg ninjas. Scorpion certainly outperforms him here.
Because Sub's a weakling?


[/Quote]
Yet we're discounting the fact that Sub-Zero would be fighting for his very life? Okay, Scorpion has something to fight for, and he's being driven by revenge. That's fine. But Sub-Zero in this situation was driven by self-preservation.[/Quote]
Yeah. In this case, it would be between that and apparently Scorp's rage was stronger

Oh yeah, learn to prove that one's mindset has an appreciable effect on their natural skill in battle, or that rage somehow trumps self-preservation.
Why not?



So if you agree with this, what are you arguing for?
Just because only Scorpion could defeat Onaga doesn't exactly make him untouchable
to every other Kombatant



We don't know. The only thing we are sure that the Kamidogu can do is, when fused by Shinnok's amulet, merge all the realms into one and recreate the One Being.
So, they wouldn't have an averse effect when destroyed?


Though, nobody ever really dies in Mortal Kombat, as proven by, unfortunately, Armageddon.
Screw that, deception proved it well enough....Goro, Shao Khan...

I'd argue that he was killed by the Deadly Alliance. We saw his eyes dim, etc. He didn't get back up until the Dragon King approached, and this ties in to my point about Shang Tsung.
that would equate to being defeated, but not necessarily killed. As for Shang, I heard him grunt when Quan Chi drops him, and his head isn't twisted like a neck break would imply. And the last time Shang's neck was broken in Shaolin Monks, his body faded instantly.



Dude. He broke Shang Tsung's neck, much in the same way Shang broke Liu Kang's. Shang Tsung was dead.
I honestly didn't see that. I saw Quan grip his throatand then drop him. And Shang cries out when he's dropped...that doesn't say 'broken neck' to me.



Uh, the best assumption leads to the conclusion that I've been arguing: Scorpion can beat Sub-Zero and it won't be close.

And yes we have seen him in action. Hell, Frost managed to jump him.
Because he trusted her. If Scorpion and Sub-Zero did fight, it would definitely not be over so quickly....especially as Scorp's turned away from the whole 'Elder God' thing



But that wasn't your original point. You kept arguing that the medallion freezes people, which it doesn't. From what we can see, it enhances the powers of those like Sub-Zero. Sub-Zero was at a state where he could control it - Frost was not. Yes, Sub-Zero is good, but this does not put him equal or above to Scorpion.
That does, however, put him in a high tier.




Given that all three are better fighters than Nitara, yes, but we can make no judgments on which one occurs.

If you want the storyline to continue, you can say that Scorpion's happens, as he doesn't end up destroying the realms or anything.
Sub and Rain's are pretty damn cool, too.



Probably because the opening is not meant to be a canon depiction, else why is he trying to kill Sub-Zero? Else why does Onaga pick up Shao Kahn and fly away from the pyramid?
The Openings have been canon since DA, why would this be different? It could also be possible Onaga was still a bit peeved about the whole 'betray me' thing....Onaga's the most powerful guy there besides maybe Shao and Scorp (Though by that time, he seems to have lost his abilities...

The opening's silly.
I'd say that about most of the openings



Yeah. I would say for damned certain that Shang at least died. Argued this above.
The dead do not cry out when they hit the ground

And anyway, how can you say that it's not so simple to return from? Tell that to Scorpion, Raiden, Liu Kang, Johnny Cage, Kung Lao, Goro, Shao Kahn, Onaga, etc.
I'm actually not sure how most of those guys came back...I'm still wondering WHY Motaro and Sheeva came back


Hell, a good portion of the fighters have died at least once.
Yeah, but they didn't return right away



Yeah, but two of the three came back to life with no signs of injury. Those two, at least, are at a good deal of their power.

I'm not sure we have any confirmation for that....after such a fight...what's the damn point if Raiden would've just sprang back up and kicked Quan-Chi's ass, only to sit back and wait for them to both jump back up?
Shang, incidentally, is reliant on souls to live and grow powerful. He was standing right next to a virtually unlimited supply of souls (the soulnado).
Shang visibly absorbs them when he needs to. He did not do so when he stood....just as illogical as the whole 'Onaga flying with Shao'

[Lsnake]

It's NP. just arguing the little things now

[SaintMorose]

Except for the fact that no incarnation of Sub-Zero, whether elder or younger, has been able to beat Scorpion since the before the first Mortal Kombat. Scorpion beats and kills the elder in 1, and beats the younger in 4.

And then Scorpion becomes the Champion of the Elder Gods in Deception and tears Onaga (you know, the thing that shrugged off everything Quan Chi, Shang Tsung, and Raiden threw at him simultaneously) apart.

Yeah. He's not losing to Sub-Zero.

Lemme guess you only play the game with 1 character?
Endings are seperate with with character and in the game's storyline that continues the re-built Scorpian never fights Onaga (Shujinko kills Onaga but is then sentenced to death by "Dark"Raiden)

He had to be rebuilt for a couple of reasons
1. He got owned by Molocc and tossed into a pit of souls
2. Younger Sub had regained the Dragon Medallion and had shifted the balence of power between him and scorpian to far to his side

Quick Power Break Down
Older Sub-Zero kills Mortal Scorpian (QuanChi kills Scor's clan, wife, and son)
Scorpian becomes Hell spawn and kills Older Sub (now Noob Saibot)
Younger Stronger SubZero balences power between the two
Younger SubZero gains Dragon amulet advancing his powers
Scorpian's body is rebuilt to aid in the fight againest Onaga

The Fight Depends on where the battle takes place Team ScorpianMileena take this easily in the NetherRealm while SubZeroMileena will win this anywhere else. Reptile and Jade could never win.

[IKC]

Lemme guess you only play the game with 1 character?

Except for the fact that Scorpion pretty much has to be the guy to defeat Onaga, because its the one that fits best with material established Armageddon. Shujinko's not dead in Armageddon, thus he didn't defeat Onaga.

Secondly, his power at this point has already been established even if the ending didn't happen. He's still the real Champion of the Elder Gods, and he can still stomp Sub-Zero.

He had to be rebuilt for a couple of reasons

He was never "rebuilt" because he never died to the soulnado. He managed to escape to the Nexus where he saw the Elder Gods. Your premise is false.

1. He got owned by Molocc and tossed into a pit of souls

No, he got grabbed by Moloch and Drahmin and tossed into a soulnado while looking for Quan Chi. Go back and play the games.

2. Younger Sub had regained the Dragon Medallion and had shifted the balence of power between him and scorpian to far to his side

Based on what evidence? Oh right. You can't establish that Sub-Zero with the medallion is superior to pre-Deception Scorpion.

Younger Stronger SubZero balences power between the two

Where the shit are you getting that the younger Sub-Zero was stronger? Sounds like you're pulling it from your ass.

And he didn't balance shit, Scorpion owned him in Mortal Kombat 4 in a canon ending (where he takes Quan Chi to the Netherrealm with him).

Younger SubZero gains Dragon amulet advancing his powers

But not to the point where you can establish that he can beat pre-Deception Scorpion. During and post-Deception he (Scorpion) is even stronger.

Scorpian's body is rebuilt to aid in the fight againest Onaga

Like I said before, never happened, he never died to the soulnado. His powers were enhanced by the Elder Gods.

The Fight Depends on where the battle takes place Team ScorpianMileena take this easily in the NetherRealm while SubZeroMileena will win this anywhere else. Reptile and Jade could never win.

Yes, Reptile and Jade can never win this.

It doesn't depend on where it takes place. Unless there's a realm where Scorpion's powers are diminished from non-Netherrealm levels, he and Mileena take it every time.

[SaintMorose]

Except for the fact that Scorpion pretty much has to be the guy to defeat Onaga, because its the one that fits best with material established Armageddon. Shujinko's not dead in Armageddon, thus he didn't defeat Onaga.

Neither is Goro, Shang Tsung, Quan Chi, Onaga... etc.


Secondly, his power at this point has already been established even if the ending didn't happen. He's still the real Champion of the Elder Gods, and he can still stomp Sub-Zero.

He was never "rebuilt" because he never died to the soulnado. He managed to escape to the Nexus where he saw the Elder Gods. Your premise is false.

Okay so the tornado never actually tore him apart
If you play through the Conquest you fight a half-finished version of scorpian as his body is "changed" by the elder gods so he was given a new body.

No, he got grabbed by Moloch and Drahmin and tossed into a soulnado while looking for Quan Chi. Go back and play the games.

So are you arguing that he never even gave them a fight?
I'll give you that if you'd like?

Based on what evidence? Oh right. You can't establish that Sub-Zero with the medallion is superior to pre-Deception Scorpion.

Jus as you cant prove scorpion is superior to Sub-Zero since aquiring said medallion however seeing as how its power was strong enough to consume another Lin Kuei (Frost) I would think it would throw him over the top of a close match-up.

Where the shit are you getting that the younger Sub-Zero was stronger? Sounds like you're pulling it from your ass.
And he didn't balance shit, Scorpion owned him in Mortal Kombat 4 in a canon ending (where he takes Quan Chi to the Netherrealm with him).

Sub-Zero never wanted to fight with Scorpion while on the other hand Scorpion was manipulated into believing Sub had been responsible for the death of his family. Only one of them was fighting to win.

But not to the point where you can establish that he can beat pre-Deception Scorpion. During and post-Deception he (Scorpion) is even stronger.

There was no fight since Sub got his ammy and Scorpion became a Champion of the ElderGods, this isn't proof to backup scorpion being strong either it just proves we lack the evidence to know for sure.

It doesn't depend on where it takes place. Unless there's a realm where Scorpion's powers are diminished from non-Netherrealm levels, he and Mileena take it every time.

The Netherrealm enhances the powers of Scorpion and others from the NetherRealm and drains power from those who dont belong there (especially sorcerors) this is why noob saibot easily defeated Sub-Zero there and why QuanChi was unable to fight back againest Scorpion once pulled there.

Lastly Scorpion becomes one of the Champions of the ElderGods once you play through MK:A a few times you'll realise that he isn't the only one so don't think his status as such secures his spot as the greatest fighter in the MK universe.

and seeing as how this is a team fight Kitana has won every fight againest Mileena no matter how Mileena sets her up. Even if Scorpion is equal to Sub-Zero's power Mileena is over-matched well enough to make this a 2v1.

I stand by Sub&Kit taking this anywhere outside of the NetherRealm