Kuja vs. Sephiroth

[Nikkolas]

Battle between Kuja, villain of FFIX, and Sephiroth, villain of FFVII. Sephiroth has access to all canon powers (KH abilities are thus excluded) and Kuja has all his magic and is in Trance. Who wins?

[Lord Sorgo]

Long battle, but Sephiroth wins.

Sephiroth is not physically able to be harmed, and Kuja does not have the capability to manipulate him, seeing as Kuja went virtually insane (Tried pushing himself into unexistance.)

Kuja casts Ultima and it does nothing. Sephiroth casts Supernova and rocks Kuja into next week. Kuja is physically able to be harmed even in Trance.

Hell, the Moogle of the FFIX party could go into Trance.

Kuja loses.

[Nikkolas]

Not physically able to be harmed? He sure seemed to be harmed...

a) When Cloud stabbed him in Nibelheim years ago.
B) When his body and mind were destroyed by Cloud's party and thus lost all physical form until the SHM were made as incomplete 1/3s of his body.
C) When Cloud destroyed him.

So, he can be harmed...and well within Kuja's power to do so. Kuja's Ultima destroyed Terra. I think it can do some damage to Sephiroth's little form. And Kuja's Trance was completely unique to any toher due to the addition of the souls of the Invincible.

[Lord Sorgo]

A) He survived.
B) He survived.
C) Nothing to survive from. He was undamaged.

Sephiroth's Supernova could destroy solar systems and fusion with the sun to create a blast of nearly uncounted power.

Kuja carpet swept Terra with Ultima. He left the planet in ruin. He wasn't even capable of blowing the planet up.

BTW, when the sun engulfed Sephiroth, it did nothing to him.

Kuja's Trance was unique? Lol, lies. A fucking Moogle could use Trance.

"To save her life, Eiko’s guardian Moogle intervened and entered Trance to defend her. The sorcerer was surprised by the realization that even a weak Moogle could use Trance."

[Nikkolas]

A) He survived.
B) He survived.
C) Nothing to survive from. He was undamaged.

A. He lost.
B. He lost.
C. He lost again.

Wow. He’s had two revivals and he still fails miserably.

Sephiroth's Supernova could destroy solar systems and fusion with the sun to create a blast of nearly uncounted power.

Ben over this. That attack is just an in-battle cinematic. It doesn’t really blow up the solar system... If you want to keep thinking it does, go right ahead. But it doesn’t because it’s just an in-battle move and is not canon. It can not blow up planets because Sephiroth himself can not blow up a single planet, let alone more than one.

Kuja carpet swept Terra with Ultima. He left the planet in ruin. He wasn't even capable of blowing the planet up.


Bulshit...I have proivded the quotes. He blew up the planet. It doesn’t matter if you think it didn’t happen. Quotes say otherwise. He “destroyed a planet.” Your semantic games on what it means to destroy a planet is unimportant. If he has the power to shatter the core of all existence in the original crystal, he can blow up a single planet. Also note that Mikoto said Terra will soon be gone. Thus, TERRA WILL SOON BE GONE. You think Earth is gone if someone just nuked it? No. It’s still there. Uninhabitable, but intact.

BTW, when the sun engulfed Sephiroth, it did nothing to him.

It’s not The Sun. It’s a move in a battls cene. Not a cutscene. No real importance or significance on the battle scene because if it was, then the SUN WOULD BE GONE OUTSIDE OF THE FIGHT. As it wasn’t, that move means nothing.

Kuja's Trance was unique? Lol, lies. A fucking Moogle could use Trance.

You really do need to replay the game or look at a script. Kuja says a normal Trance wouldn’t do. That’s why he uh, stays in Trance? That’s why uh, after going into Trance he can blow up planets? That’s why uh, it’s a unique Trance. It’s augmented with the power of souls... Clearly stated.

"To save her life, Eiko’s guardian Moogle intervened and entered Trance to defend her. The sorcerer was surprised by the realization that even a weak Moogle could use Trance."

Yep. And Kuja, being precisely 10000000 times smarter than Sephiroth and a good number of villains realized simply from witnessing that that he could become the most powerful entity in allof his universe. So, yes, Kuja used a unique Trance to attain unrivaled power.

[Lord Sorgo]

A. He lost.
B. He lost.
C. He lost again.

Wow. He’s had two revivals and he still fails miserably.

One of those times, he was against three very powerful entities.

And if you're referring to his loss in AC, you need to watch that movie again.




Ben over this. That attack is just an in-battle cinematic. It doesn’t really blow up the solar system... If you want to keep thinking it does, go right ahead. But it doesn’t because it’s just an in-battle move and is not canon. It can not blow up planets because Sephiroth himself can not blow up a single planet, let alone more than one.

It can't? So, the Sun expanding was a cinematic effect? Never happened? Didn't damage the party? Didn't deliver over a trillion damage?


His attack has the power and capability to do that, so get over it.

Notice how the sun went into Sephiroth, and it didn't damage him AT ALL?



Bulshit...I have proivded the quotes. He blew up the planet. It doesn’t matter if you think it didn’t happen. Quotes say otherwise. He “destroyed a planet.” Your semantic games on what it means to destroy a planet is unimportant. If he has the power to shatter the core of all existence in the original crystal, he can blow up a single planet. Also note that Mikoto said Terra will soon be gone. Thus, TERRA WILL SOON BE GONE. You think Earth is gone if someone just nuked it? No. It’s still there. Uninhabitable, but intact.

No, he carpet swept the planet.

What quotes did you provide? Does it show the planet ACTUALLY exploding? It was CARPET SWEPT. Ultima does not blow up planets. It left Terra IN RUIN.

He destroyed the planet, he did not blow it up. It still stands as a planet, but in ruins.


It’s not The Sun. It’s a move in a battls cene. Not a cutscene. No real importance or significance on the battle scene because if it was, then the SUN WOULD BE GONE OUTSIDE OF THE FIGHT. As it wasn’t, that move means nothing.

No, the Sun damages the party, so it went through Sephiroth, causing no damage. The cinematic effect is practicing the reality of Supernovas power.

It's not just a cutscene.

Fine, then any cutscenes that happened in that game means that the action didn't take place because it was a cut scene?

Logical Fallacy. Try again.

He expanded the sun, he did not destroy it.



You really do need to replay the game or look at a script. Kuja says a normal Trance wouldn’t do. That’s why he uh, stays in Trance? That’s why uh, after going into Trance he can blow up planets? That’s why uh, it’s a unique Trance. It’s augmented with the power of souls... Clearly stated.

No, fool, Trance is TRANCE. It's a technique. It doesn't change stage, and the Moogle used the exact Trance Kuja did.

The Moogle reached obscene levels of power with this as well. A weak Moogle could use chance. GET THE FUCK OVER IT.



Yep. And Kuja, being precisely 10000000 times smarter than Sephiroth and a good number of villains realized simply from witnessing that that he could become the most powerful entity in allof his universe. So, yes, Kuja used a unique Trance to attain unrivaled power.

Smarter than Sephiroth? Lol.

Um . . . Nice math there. Too bad it applies to shit all.

Good for Kuja! Too bad he wasn't capable of defeated the party of kids and got smashed. He even went soft in the end. He's a pussy.

[Nikkolas]

One of those times, he was against three very powerful entities.

Ah. Yes. The spikey-haired loser, the chick with the knockers and the Mr. T rip-off are just astounding characters who would surely beat any game boss... Or maybe you chose the big stuffed thing with the megaphone as a weapon? Or the guy who swears too much and smokes? Yep. What a powerful crew.

And if you're referring to his loss in AC, you need to watch that movie again.

He won’t become a memory...then he’s gone. Destroyed. Lost. Until the next game, Sephiroth is for all purposes, dead.

It can't? So, the Sun expanding was a cinematic effect? Never happened? Didn't damage the party? Didn't deliver over a trillion damage?


His attack has the power and capability to do that, so get over it.

Notice how the sun went into Sephiroth, and it didn't damage him AT ALL?

No, he can’t. Get over it, man. Honestly. You really don’t understand game mechanics, do you? It was an in-battle move. He can’t do it FOR REAL. Just like how you summon a monster and it blows away a chunk of land, the land re-appears as if nothing happened. As Sephiroth’s Supernova mysteriously blows up the Sun...yet the SUN COMES BACK. Honestly. You’re being completely childish to say Sephiroth can actually blow up the Sun. He can’t even damage a single planet with his own power.


No, he carpet swept the planet.

What quotes did you provide? Does it show the planet ACTUALLY exploding? It was CARPET SWEPT. Ultima does not blow up planets. It left Terra IN RUIN.

He destroyed the planet, he did not blow it up. It still stands as a planet, but in ruins.

Tell me when you find the quote that says he left the planet in ruins. I found a quote that says he destroyed a planet and that the entire planet will soon be gone. So, once you find your own quote, let me know.

Girl: Terra will soon be destroyed.
Girl [Mikoto]: You saw Kuja's power. He destroyed a world by himself...

So, destroyed a planet/world. Nothing mentioned about it being left in ruins.



Logical Fallacy. Try again.

He expanded the sun, he did not destroy it.

Man...this is sad. You don’t know what a supernova is, do you?

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&defl=en&q=define:Supernova&sa=X&oi=glossary_definition&ct=title

And I didn’t say what happened in cuscenes doesn’t exist. I said what happens in battles doesn’t exist. Just because you use a move in battle that blows up the sun or cracks the world in two, it doesn’t really happen outside in the real world. What happens in cutscenes happens in the real world. For instance, Sephiroth summoned Meteor in a cutscene. That’s fact. Him blowing up a solar system took place in battle and that’s a fact. Remember Aeris dying in a cutscene? In battle, that be a KO. Not actually dead. You’re the one missing this basic concept.

No, fool, Trance is TRANCE. It's a technique. It doesn't change stage, and the Moogle used the exact Trance Kuja did.

The Moogle reached obscene levels of power with this as well. A weak Moogle could use chance. GET THE FUCK OVER IT.

How bothersome...

Kuja
"It's Trance! You know how it works. But a normal Trance won't be enough to defeat you... You're all as resilient as oglops.Even tiny moogles possess the power of Trance... When I saw that in Gulug Volcano, I came up with a plan. It was easy. I just needed to borrow the power from wretched souls that can't die...Where did I acquire it? It was the Invincible, or should I say, that large eyeball in the sky? The ship sucked up the souls of Madain Sari, the Iifa Tree, Alexandria to feed upon them..."

And checkmate. A unique trance.


Smarter than Sephiroth? Lol.

Um . . . Nice math there. Too bad it applies to shit all.

Good for Kuja! Too bad he wasn't capable of defeated the party of kids and got smashed. He even went soft in the end. He's a pussy.

Kuja created an entire race for warfaRe, plunged an entire continent into chaos and ruin with every major kingdom devastated (one wiped off the map) by manipulating a benevolent queen. Sephiroth used Jenova cells to control the mind of a disturbed guy with an oversized sword to bring forth a big rock. Kuja brought about the deaths of hundreds, if not thousands all to obtain a powerful eidolon/summon. When this came to nothing, he had the genius to spot a new way to obtain power in the unique Trance mentioned earlier. So, Kuja brought about continental war, spawned a race for murder and only murder then used their fear of dying to make them his pawns again, had the party willingly beat away every obstacle in his way to attaining the ultimate power and then used the party to fully embrace that power. When all else failed, he was on the brink of destroying everything in existence. So...yes, smarter than Sephiroth.

Too bad Sephiroth couldn’t beat a severely emo guy, a chick with humongous bits, a vampire look-a-like and an airsick ninja girl wanabe. Oh and one of those “kids” had the power to bring death and surpass Kuja (before he went Trance, that is) and his purpose was to be an Angel of Death. Another one of those “kids” had immense magical energies, having been born into a race made for slaughter and destruction. Another “kid” was a highly accomplished Dragon Knight. It goes on and on... Not to mention that the characters of IX were completely better than those In VII... Oh and it still remains open whether he somehow killed the entire party. The fight was a draw since after they beat him, he wiped them all out. So, he has a draw and a victory over the party. Sephiroth has 1...2...3...4 losses against the FFVII party.

And Kuja did go good in the end. Yep. And you know what? He still caused more devastation than Sephiroth ever did.

[Lord Sorgo]

Ah. Yes. The spikey-haired loser, the chick with the knockers and the Mr. T rip-off are just astounding characters who would surely beat any game boss... Or maybe you chose the big stuffed thing with the megaphone as a weapon? Or the guy who swears too much and smokes? Yep. What a powerful crew.

Irrelevant. Stop judging what they look like.

If we were to do that, Kuja got slammed by four foot kid with a monkey tail.

Get real.

He won’t become a memory...then he’s gone. Destroyed. Lost. Until the next game, Sephiroth is for all purposes, dead.

He died? When did he die? Are you oblivious to the entire film? Sephiroth was undamaged by Cloud's attack. He made a tactical withdrawl from the fight after kicking Cloud's ass and stabbing him in his arm.

He was not destroyed.

Stop trolling. Seriously.




No, he can’t. Get over it, man. Honestly. You really don’t understand game mechanics, do you? It was an in-battle move. He can’t do it FOR REAL. Just like how you summon a monster and it blows away a chunk of land, the land re-appears as if nothing happened. As Sephiroth’s Supernova mysteriously blows up the Sun...yet the SUN COMES BACK. Honestly. You’re being completely childish to say Sephiroth can actually blow up the Sun. He can’t even damage a single planet with his own power.

It doesn't blow up the sun! You need to get REAL Yourself, you damned hypocrite!

His supernova attack was CAPABLE of destroying several planets. The cinematic effect proved this. If he could not do it for real, then why the fuck does the whole party get delivered a trillion damage? It's showing his power capability.


Tell me when you find the quote that says he left the planet in ruins. I found a quote that says he destroyed a planet and that the entire planet will soon be gone. So, once you find your own quote, let me know.

YES! YES, he did destroy it! But he did not blow it up or dissipate it. He left it in ruin. Killed everything on it. He was not capable of actually making the planet explode. Hell, he wasn't capable of beating monkey boy either.

So, destroyed a planet/world. Nothing mentioned about it being left in ruins.

Hypocrisy.

Where does it mentioned the planet was blown up?

"Kuja used his powers to coldly destroy Terra, and reduced it to a state of utter ruin."

Destroy DOES NOT mean the planet blows up. That's that, dude.

"The sorcerer was surprised by the realization that even a weak Moogle could use Trance ".




Man...this is sad. You don’t know what a supernova is, do you?

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&l...ition&ct=title

And I didn’t say what happened in cuscenes doesn’t exist. I said what happens in battles doesn’t exist. Just because you use a move in battle that blows up the sun or cracks the world in two, it doesn’t really happen outside in the real world. What happens in cutscenes happens in the real world. For instance, Sephiroth summoned Meteor in a cutscene. That’s fact. Him blowing up a solar system took place in battle and that’s a fact. Remember Aeris dying in a cutscene? In battle, that be a KO. Not actually dead. You’re the one missing this basic concept.

Ugh, you're the biggest fool I've ever debated with.

His move is called Supernova. That doesn't represent it as an ACTUAL Supernova. Does an actual Supernova run through the solar system, being mobile? Does it fusion with the sun and expand it to do damage?

And if that's what you mean't by that definiton, than yes; A Supernova can technically cause planets to explode/dissipate.

Face it: Sephiroth has that power. Get over it.



How bothersome...

Kuja
"It's Trance! You know how it works. But a normal Trance won't be enough to defeat you... You're all as resilient as oglops.Even tiny moogles possess the power of Trance... When I saw that in Gulug Volcano, I came up with a plan. It was easy. I just needed to borrow the power from wretched souls that can't die...Where did I acquire it? It was the Invincible, or should I say, that large eyeball in the sky? The ship sucked up the souls of Madain Sari, the Iifa Tree, Alexandria to feed upon them..."

And checkmate. A unique trance.

Checkmate? No, not yet.

Where is that quote from?


Kuja created an entire race for warfaRe, plunged an entire continent into chaos and ruin with every major kingdom devastated (one wiped off the map) by manipulating a benevolent queen. Sephiroth used Jenova cells to control the mind of a disturbed guy with an oversized sword to bring forth a big rock. Kuja brought about the deaths of hundreds, if not thousands all to obtain a powerful eidolon/summon. When this came to nothing, he had the genius to spot a new way to obtain power in the unique Trance mentioned earlier. So, Kuja brought about continental war, spawned a race for murder and only murder then used their fear of dying to make them his pawns again, had the party willingly beat away every obstacle in his way to attaining the ultimate power and then used the party to fully embrace that power. When all else failed, he was on the brink of destroying everything in existence. So...yes, smarter than Sephiroth.
When all else failed? His plans were stomped, Nik. The party outmaneuvered him and proved they were more powerful, so in an attempt to worm his gay ass out of the situation, he converted to being an emo, basically.

Then he turned soft at the end, whining like a little baby about his ignorance to the concept of life. Yeah, smart? I think not.

He managed to manipulate people with his mouth. Sephiroth manipulated the power of the planet to do it, and you call him a pussy for it? You're ridiculous.

And he wasn't on the brink of destroying everything in existance. He couldn't even attain that power. Hell, he couldn't even blow a planet up; He just shaved the life off of it. Sure, a good feature but he did not obtain the power to wipe existance from the map.


Too bad Sephiroth couldn’t beat a severely emo guy, a chick with humongous bits, a vampire look-a-like and an airsick ninja girl wanabe. Oh and one of those “kids” had the power to bring death and surpass Kuja (before he went Trance, that is) and his purpose was to be an Angel of Death. Another one of those “kids” had immense magical energies, having been born into a race made for slaughter and destruction. Another “kid” was a highly accomplished Dragon Knight. It goes on and on... Not to mention that the characters of IX were completely better than those In VII... Oh and it still remains open whether he somehow killed the entire party. The fight was a draw since after they beat him, he wiped them all out. So, he has a draw and a victory over the party. Sephiroth has 1...2...3...4 losses against the FFVII party.

He wiped them out? Fool. They came back to life after Kuja was defeated in his Trance form. They still managed to outpower him completely.

I love how you just fling around how the party on FF7 looked, and then you go feature-crazy with the FFIX party. You're biased, and you don't even deserve to argue.

Notice how Sephiroth attains the power to return after defeat? He's been killed how many times? Lol, Kuja died and remained dead. He holds no power. He got squashed. Period.

Oh, by the way, when Cloud stabbed Sephiroth, Sephiroth was off guard and it was a surprise attack. Cloud got stabbed back by Sephiroth, BTW. Cloud was a cheap asshole. Sephiroth also defeated Zack (Knocked him across the room) and absolutely tooled Tifa.

"Even with all the power Kuja had acquired he still could not withstand Zidane and his team."

Kuja had full power before the party pwnt him. He was losing his battle, even with this so called uber power you say he possessed. Hell, the only character that had the closest chance to actually obtaining power to erase unexistance THROUGH destroying a certain crystal was Necron, and he did not succeed.

Just like Sephiroth did not succeed. Sephiroth became a Demi God, when he wanted to be a god. He failed.

Kuja wanted to destroy everything and become uber powerful, and he failed.

Kuja got pwnt by a band of sixteen year old thieves. Sephiroth went up against full grown warriors.



And Kuja did go good in the end. Yep. And you know what? He still caused more devastation than Sephiroth ever did.

This makes him more powerful than Sephiroth? Because he caused more damage? Is that even relevant?

FFS, Nik.

[Nikkolas]

Irrelevant. Stop judging what they look like.

If we were to do that, Kuja got slammed by four foot kid with a monkey tail.

Get real.

Need I remind you

Good for Kuja! Too bad he wasn't capable of defeated the party of kids

So, don’t be a hypocrite.

He died? When did he die? Are you oblivious to the entire film? Sephiroth was undamaged by Cloud's attack. He made a tactical withdrawl from the fight after kicking Cloud's ass and stabbing him in his arm.

He was not destroyed.

Stop trolling. Seriously.

My God..you’re a fanboy. To the highest degree. Sephiroth only was manifest through Kadaj’s body. He was hit by Cloud and then he is GONE. Then Kadaj’s body is gone. So, yes, he is dead. Get it through your head. He was defeated. I would like to see who else agrees with your bizarre memory of the end of AC.


it doesn't blow up the sun! You need to get REAL Yourself, you damned hypocrite!

His supernova attack was CAPABLE of destroying several planets. The cinematic effect proved this. If he could not do it for real, then why the fuck does the whole party get delivered a trillion damage? It's showing his power capability.

If you cling to this insane notion, then I won’t argue with you anymore. I know a bigger fan of Sephiroth than you and even he doesn’t pull this insanity. A. It blows up the Sun. B. My party had 9999 HP and didn’t die. C. It’s an in-battle move. Wait, you’re telling me that since the Shinra Guards can shoot you in battle, is the same as out-of-battle? In-battle, the laws of reality are bent so that attacks like getting shot only damage some HP. In reality, such as cutscenes, gun shots tend to be fatal.

Abandon this notion or abandon this debate because you will never stand a prayer of winning if you think he can really destroy the solar system.

YES! YES, he did destroy it! But he did not blow it up or dissipate it. He left it in ruin. Killed everything on it. He was not capable of actually making the planet explode. Hell, he wasn't capable of beating monkey boy either.

I remember monkey boy being pretty much dead and only able to fight by getting powers from another. Spikey-haired boy marched out of Northern Crater with no visible problems save for the ones in his head.

Oh and he destroyed the planet. He didn’t blow it up? Get me the quote and then you gain credibility. Till then, he blew it up.

Hypocrisy.

Where does it mentioned the planet was blown up?

"Kuja used his powers to coldly destroy Terra, and reduced it to a state of utter ruin."

Destroy DOES NOT mean the planet blows up. That's that, dude.

"The sorcerer was surprised by the realization that even a weak Moogle could use Trance ".

This is pathetic. I’m using the script. God only knows what you’re using. And I point to “Terra will soon be destroyed.” Oh and ruin...yes, I believe you can fix ruin. Yet, none of the Genomes went back to Terra. You are arguing semantics; what is destroy? What is a planet? What is the definition of “is?” Those types of games won’t work. It says he destroyed a world. Nuclear holocaust or blew it up, it’s up to you. Still beyond Sephiroth’s power. Oh, but he had a big rock! And Kuja did this blowing up or total annihilation in minutes. So, yes, he’s still either a planet buster or a planet devastator which is beyond Sephiroth on many levels.


His move is called Supernova. That doesn't represent it as an ACTUAL Supernova. Does an actual Supernova run through the solar system, being mobile? Does it fusion with the sun and expand it to do damage?

And if that's what you mean't by that definiton, than yes; A Supernova can technically cause planets to explode/dissipate.

Face it: Sephiroth has that power. Get over it.

No. He doesn’t. You are full of shit. He doesn’t have the power to hurt a signle planet without assistance, let alone a solar system. Accept it. In fact, I see this is pointless. You can’t grasp the difference between cutscenes and battle scenes. One is reality. The other is simply in the battle. One effects the universe of the game. The other is simply a separate thing entirely. A pheonix down works to revive KO’ed people. Pheonix Downs don’t work on people who died in reality - cutscenes. So, battle moves are nothing and are ineffectual against the entire world.

Checkmate? No, not yet.

Where is that quote from?

The script. Try GameFaqs. Or play the game. Either is good.

When all else failed? His plans were stomped, Nik. The party outmaneuvered him and proved they were more powerful, so in an attempt to worm his gay ass out of the situation, he converted to being an emo, basically

My God...you have no idea what you’re talking about. His initial plan was to gain an eidolon/summon who could destroy Garland who was his biggest threat. Garland destroyed that eidolon with the invincible. After this, Kuja attempted to find another eidolon with such power but after witnessing Mog go into Trance, he decided on that plan instead. The party helped him in every way to gain the ultimate power.

Kuja
"I must say... I truly love you all.You not only broke the seal to Terra, but did me the favor of defeating Garland!" .

Then, later on, they engaged him in battle and helped him attain unrivaled power. However, at this point, after achieving his life’s amibtion, he is told he will die “soon.” You would react well if what you strode for all your life finally was in your grasp but you were to die and render all your work pointless? And he is a narcissist. Being egocentric, destroying everything if he can’t live makes perfect sense. He is the most important thing in this world and the world does not deserve to live on after he dies.

Then he turned soft at the end, whining like a little baby about his ignorance to the concept of life. Yeah, smart? I think not.

Oh. I see. Because he turned good and helped the party at the end makes him stupid. What a lovely way to look at things - morality and learning from things makes one stupid. Tell me who’s more like a dim switch; the guy who understand sat the moment of death things about himself or the guy who continues to fight and lose repeatedly? You can’t give weight to saying he’s not smart by the decision he made at the end of his life because well, it wasn’t stupid. It was self-realization.

He managed to manipulate people with his mouth. Sephiroth manipulated the power of the planet to do it, and you call him a pussy for it? You're ridiculous

You mean the power of Jenova... It was Jenova’s cells and Jenova’s power he used to control the clones and Cloud. Jenova has a great host of abilities and Seph piggybacked on them to get what he wanted. Sephiroth, for instance, can not phase through walls in his physical form. Jenova can. Sephiroth used a power he was given at birth to control a group of people who had no chance to resist him. You do understand which take smore intelligence, right? Kuja needs to use his brains and wit to control others. Sephiroth uses Jenova cells. Simple enough and nothing compared to the complexity of Kuja’s scheme. .

And he wasn't on the brink of destroying everything in existance. He couldn't even attain that power. Hell, he couldn't even blow a planet up; He just shaved the life off of it. Sure, a good feature but he did not obtain the power to wipe existance from the map.

Man...you did not play the game. I’m sorry but unless you do, I refuse to even debate with you on it. Either that or read the script and know the facts.

Kuja
"Take a good look. Isn't it beautiful? It's the original crystal... This is where it all began... The birthplace of all things... Once I destroy it, everything will be gone. Gaia, Terra, the universe, everything..."

So yep, he could destroy all existence. And don’t say it’s a pansy-ass way to destroy existence because you have no idea what level of power it would take to destroy that thing. Being the origin of the universe, I’m guessing it takes quite a bit of power and suggesting anything less is folly.

He wiped them out? Fool. They came back to life after Kuja was defeated in his Trance form. They still managed to outpower him completely.

lol The first part is funny because you attempt to disprove my point by agreeing with it. He wiped out the party. So, first fight is a win for Kuja. Second fight is a draw. Oh and I wouldn’t call laying lifeless and motionless “overpowering” your opponent.

Notice how Sephiroth attains the power to return after defeat? He's been killed how many times? Lol, Kuja died and remained dead. He holds no power. He got squashed. Period.

Notice how that is all dependent on the Jenova cells? They were what kept him alive at all in any of these fights. And you seem to forget that even if he comes back, he loses again. Which means, he is at 0-2. So, you can flaunt him returning as some sort of point but it just proves Kuja’s superiority because he did more in one lifetime then Seph has to do in a game and a CGI movie.

Oh, by the way, when Cloud stabbed Sephiroth, Sephiroth was off guard and it was a surprise attack. Cloud got stabbed back by Sephiroth, BTW. Cloud was a cheap asshole. Sephiroth also defeated Zack (Knocked him across the room) and absolutely tooled Tifa.

Wow. An enraged and over-emotional girl was overpowered by the genetic freak lunatic because she was distressed, he was born with power beyond any normal human and the sword was kinda...too big for her. It was said only Sephiroth could use that sword. So...it wasn’t really even a fight.

Kuja had full power before the party pwnt him. He was losing his battle, even with this so called uber power you say he possessed. Hell, the only character that had the closest chance to actually obtaining power to erase unexistance THROUGH destroying a certain crystal was Necron, and he did not succeed.

You forget that Kuja, before this fight, has: destroyed/blown up a planet, created all of Memoria, spawned that army of Silver Dragons, the 4 Chaos Guardians, Deathguise, could threaten all existence. Look at my quote from the script. Trumps whatever piece of crap second-hand plot summary you’re following.

Just like Sephiroth did not succeed. Sephiroth became a Demi God, when he wanted to be a god. He failed.

A demi-god...interesting. A demi-god using a magic anyone can use as long as they’re in a certain area. Amazing.

[quuote]Kuja wanted to destroy everything and become uber powerful, and he failed.

Kuja got pwnt by a band of sixteen year old thieves. Sephiroth went up against full grown warriors.[/quote]

Considering one of the sixteen-year-olds is a summoner who’s eidolons can wipe out an entire kingdom in one blast (Odin at Cleyra), can swallow and consume an entire district of another (Lindblum) and alone can summon Bahamut who totals an entire fleet of warships in seconds... I’ll say she’s pretty tough. And those were all in the hands of a non-summoner. I’m pretty sure a real summoner’s moves would own twice as badly.

Fully-grown warrior? Yuffie, hello? She was sixteen, I believe. If I’m wrong, I’m sorry. But in no way fully grown. And Amarant has to be in his 20s-30s.

I end this debate until you play the game. End of story. .

[Lord Sorgo]

So, don’t be a hypocrite.

They're kids. There are differences between kids and adults, you know.

Oh, and on what grounds am I a hypocrite if I was judging them by age and you were judging them by looks?

Try again, son.


My God..you’re a fanboy. To the highest degree. Sephiroth only was manifest through Kadaj’s body. He was hit by Cloud and then he is GONE. Then Kadaj’s body is gone. So, yes, he is dead. Get it through your head. He was defeated. I would like to see who else agrees with your bizarre memory of the end of AC.

See? Here is hypocrisy. You called me a fanboy of Sephiroth when you are infact a Kuja fanboy, seeing as FFIX is your favorite game (You listed it as your favorite in the Media section).

Sephiroth recieved zero damage. No visible cuts or scars. He still should have been physically damaged. As is stated, he came through Kadaj to do physical battle this time around due to the fact in FFVII, he lost his mental battle with Cloud.

Sephiroth could have stayed around, but he made a tactical withdrawl. He didn't die and he sure as hell was not hurt.

Oh I see how it works. So . . . Sephiroth gets hit and he just . . . dissapears without physical injury? Oh! It's all coming to me!

Or not.

If you cling to this insane notion, then I won’t argue with you anymore. I know a bigger fan of Sephiroth than you and even he doesn’t pull this insanity. A. It blows up the Sun. B. My party had 9999 HP and didn’t die. C. It’s an in-battle move. Wait, you’re telling me that since the Shinra Guards can shoot you in battle, is the same as out-of-battle? In-battle, the laws of reality are bent so that attacks like getting shot only damage some HP. In reality, such as cutscenes, gun shots tend to be fatal.
More verbal diarrhea.

A) It expands the sun. It does not "explode" it. What is with you and everything exploding?

B) Oh my god. I'm not going to go over this fucking shit twice: It does a trillion damage. You can heal your party before it reaches zero. Want me to send you the video again? I can. Just ask.

C) They're showing the power and capability of Sephiroth's attack. That's just simply what it can do! That's the purpose of the cutscene. Bottom line!



Abandon this notion or abandon this debate because you will never stand a prayer of winning if you think he can really destroy the solar system.

He has that capability. Sorry to burst your bubble, bro. They wouldn't show it if he could not do it. It's that fucking simple!

I remember monkey boy being pretty much dead and only able to fight by getting powers from another. Spikey-haired boy marched out of Northern Crater with no visible problems save for the ones in his head.

Besides the severe emotional damage Cloud experienced? And that nice scar in his abdomen? And his town being obliterated? And his friend/potential lover getting impaled? Please.

The reason Zidane and party were killed is because Kuja self-destructed, basically. He knew he could not defeat them, so he took them down with him.

He still failed! They came back fully fuctional! This is after Kuja died.

Oh and he destroyed the planet. He didn’t blow it up? Get me the quote and then you gain credibility. Till then, he blew it up.

Enough of this fucked up logic from you. I'm serious now.

In the game, it is clear the planet is not blown up. Get over it! And no, unfortunately, the laws of Logic permit you from running around saying that it is because no one has refuted it.

I have. I've provided quotes from a source familiar with the game, and I've played it. I'd know. The planet was not shown to explode. It was just carpet swept and left in ruin.


This is pathetic. I’m using the script. God only knows what you’re using. And I point to “Terra will soon be destroyed.” Oh and ruin...yes, I believe you can fix ruin. Yet, none of the Genomes went back to Terra. You are arguing semantics; what is destroy? What is a planet? What is the definition of “is?” Those types of games won’t work. It says he destroyed a world. Nuclear holocaust or blew it up, it’s up to you. Still beyond Sephiroth’s power. Oh, but he had a big rock! And Kuja did this blowing up or total annihilation in minutes. So, yes, he’s still either a planet buster or a planet devastator which is beyond Sephiroth on many levels.

I'm going to only say this once in big, bold for you.

JUST BECAUSE KUJA ACCOMPLISHED MORE DOES NOT MAKE HIM MORE POWERFUL.

Your logic is up-fucked and back-asswards.

I ask once again: So, Terra being destroyed means it explodes? You've yet to prove that it BLOWS UP and the planet ceases to exist.

Why the fuck would the Genomes go back to Terra? There's nothing to go back to! The planet is ruined AKA DESTROYED!


No. He doesn’t. You are full of shit. He doesn’t have the power to hurt a signle planet without assistance, let alone a solar system. Accept it. In fact, I see this is pointless. You can’t grasp the difference between cutscenes and battle scenes. One is reality. The other is simply in the battle. One effects the universe of the game. The other is simply a separate thing entirely. A pheonix down works to revive KO’ed people. Pheonix Downs don’t work on people who died in reality - cutscenes. So, battle moves are nothing and are ineffectual against the entire world.

Yes! KOed! Not dead, but KOed. When they reach zero, they're KOed and severely injured. Notice how they still walk around after a battle when zero is reached? They're not dead. Does Phoenix down says it revives the DEAD? No! It revives someone from unconciousness.

Listen very carefully this time around:

Supernova has that capability. The reason they showed the cutscene was to DISPLAY THE POWER THE SPELL REPRESENTED.

It's that simple! It doesn't do a trillion damage because it's weak. Jesus christ.


The script. Try GameFaqs. Or play the game. Either is good.

Show me the source! Let's see this script.

My God...you have no idea what you’re talking about. His initial plan was to gain an eidolon/summon who could destroy Garland who was his biggest threat. Garland destroyed that eidolon with the invincible. After this, Kuja attempted to find another eidolon with such power but after witnessing Mog go into Trance, he decided on that plan instead. The party helped him in every way to gain the ultimate power.

Did he gain that power? Did his plan succeed?

If they did not, I know what I'm talking about.

Wait . . . They didn't! Oh looky!

Kuja
"I must say... I truly love you all.You not only broke the seal to Terra, but did me the favor of defeating Garland!" .


SOURCE, FFS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

It's not relevant, BTW. He still failed to go through with achieving god status or destroyed all he wanted to. Like Sephiroth, he only completed part of his mission.

Then, later on, they engaged him in battle and helped him attain unrivaled power. However, at this point, after achieving his life’s amibtion, he is told he will die “soon.” You would react well if what you strode for all your life finally was in your grasp but you were to die and render all your work pointless? And he is a narcissist. Being egocentric, destroying everything if he can’t live makes perfect sense. He is the most important thing in this world and the world does not deserve to live on after he dies.

Bullshit. Your theory is squashed because he goes soft in the end after realizing his FUCKING IGNORANCE! He's a fool! His ambitions obviously were not clear enough. He could not defeat the party, so he attempted to utterly collapse everything.

HE FAILED . . . Miserably.



Oh. I see. Because he turned good and helped the party at the end makes him stupid. What a lovely way to look at things - morality and learning from things makes one stupid. Tell me who’s more like a dim switch; the guy who understand sat the moment of death things about himself or the guy who continues to fight and lose repeatedly? You can’t give weight to saying he’s not smart by the decision he made at the end of his life because well, it wasn’t stupid. It was self-realization.

Sephiroth passed believing what he was doing was right. He was proud and patriotic to his beliefs and ambitions.

Kuja dropped everything after seeing how ignorant he was. He stopped his dreams and ambitions. He was a good villain once.

Hell, he loses once and goes soft. He loses his ambition after one round of getting his ass kicked. Sephiroth?

Sephiroth has drive, and a strong will. He keeps fighting for what he thinks is right.

After all, morality is based on opinion.

My morality says Kuja's little charade at the end was a pathetic cop out.


You mean the power of Jenova... It was Jenova’s cells and Jenova’s power he used to control the clones and Cloud. Jenova has a great host of abilities and Seph piggybacked on them to get what he wanted. Sephiroth, for instance, can not phase through walls in his physical form. Jenova can. Sephiroth used a power he was given at birth to control a group of people who had no chance to resist him. You do understand which take smore intelligence, right? Kuja needs to use his brains and wit to control others. Sephiroth uses Jenova cells. Simple enough and nothing compared to the complexity of Kuja’s scheme. .

Yeah, basically, Kuja had to do more work while Sephiroth sat there and took advantage of the power he had in his hands.

So . . . Who is smarter again?

Sephiroth learned to control the planets energies and the power of Jenova. Kuja couldn't even do that. He had to use his brain because he lacked the power to utilize such other powers. If you think Sephiroth isn't smart for controlling the most powerful energy within the planet, you're a blinded fool!



Man...you did not play the game. I’m sorry but unless you do, I refuse to even debate with you on it. Either that or read the script and know the facts.

So, he did obtain the power to wipe out all existance? His plans were successful? He did destroy everything?

It looks like you have not played the game.

Kuja
"Take a good look. Isn't it beautiful? It's the original crystal... This is where it all began... The birthplace of all things... Once I destroy it, everything will be gone. Gaia, Terra, the universe, everything..."

So yep, he could destroy all existence. And don’t say it’s a pansy-ass way to destroy existence because you have no idea what level of power it would take to destroy that thing. Being the origin of the universe, I’m guessing it takes quite a bit of power and suggesting anything less is folly.
Did he destroy it? Did he make Gaia, Terra, and the Universe all dissipate?

NO!

Want to know why?

BECAUSE HE COULDN'T SUM THE POWER TO DESTROY THE CRYSTAL, FFS!


lol The first part is funny because you attempt to disprove my point by agreeing with it. He wiped out the party. So, first fight is a win for Kuja. Second fight is a draw. Oh and I wouldn’t call laying lifeless and motionless “overpowering” your opponent.

A draw? Kuja COPPED OUT for the last time. He knew the party was more powerful than he was.

That's like me saying "Well, since Sephiroth beat Cloud, Tifa and some other party members earlier in the game, they must tie!"

WRONG!

Just because Kuja pussied out because the party was more powerful doesn't mean he won. Hell, it means he lost . . .

Considering the party came back, and he's rotting dead, yeah . . .


Notice how that is all dependent on the Jenova cells? They were what kept him alive at all in any of these fights. And you seem to forget that even if he comes back, he loses again. Which means, he is at 0-2. So, you can flaunt him returning as some sort of point but it just proves Kuja’s superiority because he did more in one lifetime then Seph has to do in a game and a CGI movie.

Stop going about Jenova cells! I didn't see Kuja manipulating anything to return back to life. Maybe because he lacked the power to do so?

And . . . Last time I checked, Cloud got served in AC. He was on the defense for 90% of the fight and got a nice hole in his arm because Sephiroth decided to spare his sorry ass.

Kuja died . . . And now he's gone. He can't return because he lacks the power to do so. The end.


Wow. An enraged and over-emotional girl was overpowered by the genetic freak lunatic because she was distressed, he was born with power beyond any normal human and the sword was kinda...too big for her. It was said only Sephiroth could use that sword. So...it wasn’t really even a fight.

LOL! Nice misdirection, but it won't get you nowhere. If anyone was distressed, it was Sephiroth. He just found out he was a potential creation and an abstraction to life.

So, Sephiroth won because he was the only one who could use the Masamune?

Rofl. Is that even relevant to them actually scrapping? It's not a fight because Sephiroth is a "Genetic Mutation", which he later finds out in the game that he IS NOT?

ROFL!

You forget that Kuja, before this fight, has: destroyed/blown up a planet, created all of Memoria, spawned that army of Silver Dragons, the 4 Chaos Guardians, Deathguise, could threaten all existence. Look at my quote from the script. Trumps whatever piece of crap second-hand plot summary you’re following.

He didn't blow up no damn planet. He couldn't. Bottom line.

And Sephiroth did not want to threaten existance. He wanted to destroy the planet because of what it obtained and he wanted to become a God so he could have unlimited power, not destroy everything.

Kuja's a fool. What was he going to do after erasing existance? Sit around and do jack shit? Sephiroth wanted to be a God; To control life and do what he pleased.

Now stop naming feats. This isn't feat wars according to Nikkolas, It's Sephiroth VS Kuja.


A demi-god...interesting. A demi-god using a magic anyone can use as long as they’re in a certain area. Amazing.

No, that is not what a Demigod is. This is from DICTIONARY.COM:

Read very carefully:

"A mythological being who is partly divine and partly human; an inferior deity."

He basically obtained almost god like powers. He was a DEMI God. An inferior Deity, but a Deity nonetheless.

Considering one of the sixteen-year-olds is a summoner who’s eidolons can wipe out an entire kingdom in one blast (Odin at Cleyra), can swallow and consume an entire district of another (Lindblum) and alone can summon Bahamut who totals an entire fleet of warships in seconds... I’ll say she’s pretty tough. And those were all in the hands of a non-summoner. I’m pretty sure a real summoner’s moves would own twice as badly.

Or the FFVII party, who could summon Ultima (Nuclear Energy blast) and Comet.

Or Shield, which could guard against any magical attack whatsoever.

Or Comet2, which could make the sky rain fucking comets.

Each to their own, Nik. They all have good assets and powers.

Or Omnislash . . . Knights of the Round . . . Summoning Odin, or Bahamut.

Hell, summoning Bahamut ZERO, Which was virtually an orbital cannon that had immensive amounts of power. Or Neo Bahamut, which acted as a Carpet-sweeper.

Lol, why not just cast Death? Instantly KO's the opponent on the round.

Since we were throwing feats around, I'll debate at your expense.




Fully-grown warrior? Yuffie, hello? She was sixteen, I believe. If I’m wrong, I’m sorry. But in no way fully grown. And Amarant has to be in his 20s-30s.

I end this debate until you play the game. End of story. .

Yeah, ONE Sixteen year old. Most of the IX Party is under sixteen. Hell, there's even a six year old. And a Nine year old!

Amarant Coral's age is unknown, BTW.


I end this debate until you discontinue your piss-poor bias to IX and appearance insults.

[Nikkolas]

They're kids. There are differences between kids and adults, you know.

Oh, and on what grounds am I a hypocrite if I was judging them by age and you were judging them by looks?

Try again, son.

So, the old dragon knight, the knight, the older guy, the non-human, the boy and girl in their teens are kids. There was two kids - Eiko and Vivi...


Sephiroth recieved zero damage. No visible cuts or scars. He still should have been physically damaged. As is stated, he came through Kadaj to do physical battle this time around due to the fact in FFVII, he lost his mental battle with Cloud.

Sephiroth could have stayed around, but he made a tactical withdrawl. He didn't die and he sure as hell was not hurt.

Oh I see how it works. So . . . Sephiroth gets hit and he just . . . dissapears without physical injury? Oh! It's all coming to me!

Or not.

This isn’t even worth replying to. Sorry, he lost. Whatever false memory you have planted into your brain doesn’t work because well, uh, could it be that, uh, he lost? And vanished? And was defeated? So, please don’t be like this. It’s horribly embarrassing. You know why? Because people don’t retreat when they haven’t lost. In your distorted and faulty memory of that scene, Sephiroth wasn’t hurt which translates into he just left...for no reason. You do understand how moronic that makes you sound, right? Just stop arguing this now and save yourself a smidgeon of respectability.

A) It expands the sun. It does not "explode" it. What is with you and everything exploding?

The Sun explodes, dude...get over it. You don’t understand the physics of a supernova. Read the definitions I sent to you again.

B) Oh my god. I'm not going to go over this fucking shit twice: It does a trillion damage. You can heal your party before it reaches zero. Want me to send you the video again? I can. Just ask.

I’ll take when I played the game and my party not dying as more proof than some video, bud.

C) They're showing the power and capability of Sephiroth's attack. That's just simply what it can do! That's the purpose of the cutscene. Bottom line!

And people can get shot in battles and not die! And slashed by swords and not die! Battle reality is not game reality. What you do in a battle effects the world only at the begging and end. This would be Sephiroth losing is what matters. His attacks, however, are meaningless. He can’t do anything to a single planet, let alone more than one.

He has that capability. Sorry to burst your bubble, bro. They wouldn't show it if he could not do it. It's that fucking simple!

I will read the rest of your argument, reply and I’m not saying anything more. You. Are. An. Idiot. There is not getting passed this, I can see. He can’t blow up a planet..he can’t do anything of that kind. It’s that frickin’ simple.


Besides the severe emotional damage Cloud experienced? And that nice scar in his abdomen? And his town being obliterated? And his friend/potential lover getting impaled? Please.

A. Yep. Been done. Lots of characters have emotional damage, I’m afraid.
B. Lots of characters have scars.
C. Yep. Friends and lovers have died in frotn of others who cared about them.
D. I was talking about the corresponding end fight scenes, dolt.

The reason Zidane and party were killed is because Kuja self-destructed, basically. He knew he could not defeat them, so he took them down with him.

He still failed! They came back fully fuctional! This is after Kuja died.[/quote]


He was dead? Funny..I recall him saving the party and then talking with Zidane. So, fight ends with both groups wiped out. Draw.


Enough of this fucked up logic from you. I'm serious now.

In the game, it is clear the planet is not blown up. Get over it! And no, unfortunately, the laws of Logic permit you from running around saying that it is because no one has refuted it.

I have. I've provided quotes from a source familiar with the game, and I've played it. I'd know. The planet was not shown to explode. It was just carpet swept and left in ruin.

Oh no. A source familiar with the game! I’m terrified. It is an official source? If it was, you’d have boasted it, I’m sure. So, I’ll take it that is’s not an official source and thus really pointless. Planet would be destroyed. All planet gone. Your interpretation of that quote has no more value over my own, I’m afraid.

JUST BECAUSE KUJA ACCOMPLISHED MORE DOES NOT MAKE HIM MORE POWERFUL.

Your logic is up-fucked and back-asswards.

I ask once again: So, Terra being destroyed means it explodes? You've yet to prove that it BLOWS UP and the planet ceases to exist.

Why the fuck would the Genomes go back to Terra? There's nothing to go back to! The planet is ruined AKA DESTROYED!

Provide me an official quote saying otherwise.


Oh and an accomplishment would be Kuja achieving his goals...a feat and demonstration of power would be destroying Terra. Difference.

Yes! KOed! Not dead, but KOed. When they reach zero, they're KOed and severely injured. Notice how they still walk around after a battle when zero is reached? They're not dead. Does Phoenix down says it revives the DEAD? No! It revives someone from unconciousness.

Listen very carefully this time around:

Supernova has that capability. The reason they showed the cutscene was to DISPLAY THE POWER THE SPELL REPRESENTED.

It's that simple! It doesn't do a trillion damage because it's weak. Jesus christ.

But you are saying it like it effin’ matters. It’s one flashy move in a battle that didnt’ even kill my party. It thus means nothing in the real world. The real world is people dying from gunshots. Not getting shot and losing HP. I just don’t care anymore. If you can’t understand this, I just wont’ bother with you anymore.


Show me the source! Let's see this script.

Can’t link directly to GameFaqs files. Here’s the page.

http://www.gamefaqs.com/console/psx/game/197338.html

Pick one of the scripts to look at.

Did he gain that power? Did his plan succeed?

If they did not, I know what I'm talking about.

Wait . . . They didn't! Oh looky!

What in the name of Heaven are you talking about...? After going into his Super Trance...

Kuja
"Yes! This is the power I've longed for!!!"The mighty power of souls! They assault any threat that tries to destroy them!"

Achieved his goal of ultimate power. His goal of ruling an eternal kingdom failed but he still got the power he sought which means he was victorious. It was just his victory was spoiled.



SOURCE, FFS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

It's not relevant, BTW. He still failed to go through with achieving god status or destroyed all he wanted to. Like Sephiroth, he only completed part of his mission.[/quote]

Sephiroth sought power. Filaed. Kuja sought power. Succeeded. Difference.

Bullshit. Your theory is squashed because he goes soft in the end after realizing his FUCKING IGNORANCE! He's a fool! His ambitions obviously were not clear enough. He could not defeat the party, so he attempted to utterly collapse everything.

HE FAILED . . . Miserably.

Everyone who died on Gaia, the original people of Terra who slept in Pandemonium, and the party who were all killed by him would disagree he failed in any way, let alone miserably. However, Cloud’s group can claim 3 victories over him as of FFVII and FF: AC. As Meteor never even hit, I say he failed miserably.

Sephiroth passed believing what he was doing was right. He was proud and patriotic to his beliefs and ambitions.

Kuja dropped everything after seeing how ignorant he was. He stopped his dreams and ambitions. He was a good villain once.

Hell, he loses once and goes soft. He loses his ambition after one round of getting his ass kicked. Sephiroth?

Sephiroth has drive, and a strong will. He keeps fighting for what he thinks is right.

After all, morality is based on opinion.

My morality says Kuja's little charade at the end was a pathetic cop out.

Well, seeing as he is not an Anceitn and his mother was what killed the Ancients which comprised every reason for him being evil...then his entire motivation makes no sense. Good for him to stick to being a moron.

Yeah, basically, Kuja had to do more work while Sephiroth sat there and took advantage of the power he had in his hands.

So . . . Who is smarter again?

Sephiroth learned to control the planets energies and the power of Jenova. Kuja couldn't even do that. He had to use his brain because he lacked the power to utilize such other powers. If you think Sephiroth isn't smart for controlling the most powerful energy within the planet, you're a blinded fool!

Cut it on the explanation marks. Calm down. And Kuja had power...a la surviving a shot from the Invincible meant to kill him and laughing at a blast from the most powerful summon. And yes, Sephiroth had immense power at his disposal. So, one person had to use their intelligence to achieve their goal and power, while the other had powers laid in their lap...I wonder which is more intelligent.


So, he did obtain the power to wipe out all existance? His plans were successful? He did destroy everything?

It looks like you have not played the game.

I believe what I said was “So yep, he [u]could destroy all existence”

Did he destroy it? Did he make Gaia, Terra, and the Universe all dissipate?

NO!

Want to know why?

BECAUSE HE COULDN'T SUM THE POWER TO DESTROY THE CRYSTAL, FFS!

If I recall, the party beat him. He could have...and was about to. But didn’t. He did not attempt and try, if I recall. He never got the chance. So, give it up.

A draw? Kuja COPPED OUT for the last time. He knew the party was more powerful than he was.

That's like me saying "Well, since Sephiroth beat Cloud, Tifa and some other party members earlier in the game, they must tie!"

WRONG!

Just because Kuja pussied out because the party was more powerful doesn't mean he won. Hell, it means he lost .

Party hurts Kuja

Kuja uses his most powerful attack.

Both are at point of death.D raw. Again, lying motionless and lifeless does not mean you won. Sorry. . .

Considering the party came back, and he's rotting dead, yeah . . .

Interesting way to rot dead while talking to Zidane. And uh, I’m talking about the battle. The battle ended with ultima. So, yes, a draw.

Stop going about Jenova cells! I didn't see Kuja manipulating anything to return back to life. Maybe because he lacked the power to do so?

Or he didn’t want to? He was good at the end...and also, the mechanics of FFIX are nothing like FFVII? Souls don’t manifest and effect the world. Aeris and Sephiroth do so because of the method in which sonciousness becomes Life Energy for the Planet. As FFIX functions very differently, that kinda won’t work.

Kuja died . . . And now he's gone. He can't return because he lacks the power to do so. The end.

Or he lacks the will or world to do so? Soul dies in FFIX, it goes away. Soul dies in FFVII, it goes to the Planet as the Lifestream which means powerful wills can resist it. So...yes, the world in which both live are vastly different and your assertion fails.

LOL! Nice misdirection, but it won't get you nowhere. If anyone was distressed, it was Sephiroth. He just found out he was a potential creation and an abstraction to life.

Nice double-negatives. And uh, Sephiroth had just found out he was the sole Ancient alive...which was wrong. And he proclaimed to be overjoyed and was quite maniacal with his joy. Tifa saw her hometown burned and her father killed. I’m sure she’s not as distressed as Seph at all...and I said she was upset, he was stronger and she used a sword she couldn’t use effectively. So, again, point is solid.


So, Sephiroth won because he was the only one who could use the Masamune?

Rofl. Is that even relevant to them actually scrapping? It's not a fight because Sephiroth is a "Genetic Mutation", which he later finds out in the game that he IS NOT?

ROFL! [/qipte]

Sephiroth’s entire plot makes no sense. He claims to know the wisdom of the Ancients but is still a villain despite his entire reason for being a villain doesn’t exist as he should know. Sad, isn’t it.



[quote]He didn't blow up no damn planet. He couldn't. Bottom line.

And Sephiroth did not want to threaten existance. He wanted to destroy the planet because of what it obtained and he wanted to become a God so he could have unlimited power, not destroy everything.

Kuja's a fool. What was he going to do after erasing existance? Sit around and do jack shit? Sephiroth wanted to be a God; To control life and do what he pleased.

Now stop naming feats. This isn't feat wars according to Nikkolas, It's Sephiroth VS Kuja.

Kuja’s original motives were to rule over everyone. Then, once he found out he would die, he decided existence should die. And Seph needed Meteor to hurt the Planet significantly which would translate into he can’t even fully destroy it on his own.

No, that is not what a Demigod is. This is from DICTIONARY.COM:

Read very carefully:

"A mythological being who is partly divine and partly human; an inferior deity."

He basically obtained almost god like powers. He was a DEMI God. An inferior Deity, but a Deity nonetheless.

And Kuja’s actions provoked the working of an actual deity in Necron. His power was so immense that he could threaten all existence and this threat summoned Necron. So, I’m pretty sure Kuja was a demi-god.

Or the FFVII party, who could summon Ultima (Nuclear Energy blast) and Comet.

Or Shield, which could guard against any magical attack whatsoever.

Or Comet2, which could make the sky rain fucking comets.

Each to their own, Nik. They all have good assets and powers.

Or Omnislash . . . Knights of the Round . . . Summoning Odin, or Bahamut.

Hell, summoning Bahamut ZERO, Which was virtually an orbital cannon that had immensive amounts of power. Or Neo Bahamut, which acted as a Carpet-sweeper.

Lol, why not just cast Death? Instantly KO's the opponent on the round.

Since we were throwing feats around, I'll debate at your expense.

I see..and all of that was in-battle which is not canon to the game world...which makes them useless here. Besides, Ark is on part with Bahamut ZERO, bud. And I’m talking about what the summons could do FOR REAL. That means canon attacks. So, if I wanted, I coul dsay Garnet summons Atomos who then swallows FFVII’s party. Because that is canon from cutscenes.

Yeah, ONE Sixteen year old. Most of the IX Party is under sixteen. Hell, there's even a six year old. And a Nine year old!

Amarant Coral's age is unknown, BTW.


I end this debate until you discontinue your piss-poor bias to IX and appearance insults.

As I said, I’m done. This is too sad to even continue. I have argued with people on this topic for 4 years, bud. Yo won’t win because well, you think battle moves are real.

[Lord Sorgo]

So, the old dragon knight, the knight, the older guy, the non-human, the boy and girl in their teens are kids. There was two kids - Eiko and Vivi...

Sorry, but yeah! Teenagers are considered kids. Well, on my occassion.

It honestly wasn't relevant; Just like the looks of my party wasn't relevant.


This isn’t even worth replying to. Sorry, he lost. Whatever false memory you have planted into your brain doesn’t work because well, uh, could it be that, uh, he lost? And vanished? And was defeated? So, please don’t be like this. It’s horribly embarrassing. You know why? Because people don’t retreat when they haven’t lost. In your distorted and faulty memory of that scene, Sephiroth wasn’t hurt which translates into he just left...for no reason. You do understand how moronic that makes you sound, right? Just stop arguing this now and save yourself a smidgeon of respectability.

You're a fool who is obviously COMPLETELY ignorant to movie physics.

If Sephiroth was defeated, where are the marks on his body from when he was slashed? Why didn't he dissipate immediately? Why was he able to sit there and pop that wing out whenever he pleased? How come he was able to talk and then withdrawl?

He left the fight. It's that simple! You think he'd just sit there in mid air and let Cloud omnislash him? Yeah okay. Does THAT makes sense?

And I'm thinking you don't understand the fact that Sephiroth allowed Cloud to live. He stabbed him in the shoulder when he could have thrusted that sword anywhere else he wanted to. He had beaten Cloud and Cloud was having troubles staying concious. He was open and Sephiroth only decided to stab him in the shoulder.

He allowed him to live. It's honestly that simple. And Sephiroth wasn't killed or anything, his testament was obvious; He will return.

The Sun explodes, dude...get over it. You don’t understand the physics of a supernova. Read the definitions I sent to you again.

No, you don't understand the physics of a Supernova. Hell, you don't even understand the basics here:

That was JUST A NAME for Sephiroth's deadly attack. It wasn't an actual Supernova.

Supernovae are not mobile and they cannot fusion with the Sun to make it expand upon the galaxy.

The sun simply expands, deteriorating the party in immensive heat to impact severe damage.

I’ll take when I played the game and my party not dying as more proof than some video, bud.

See? You lack intelligence. It's not even funny, Nikkolas.

That was a video of the game. It was a video of the move being fullfilled. It's obvious you're in a state of denial at this point because you're incorrect.

The attack does a trillion damage.

http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d7/shadowtheninja/untitled.jpg

Oh sorry, it fucking does more.


And people can get shot in battles and not die! And slashed by swords and not die! Battle reality is not game reality. What you do in a battle effects the world only at the begging and end. This would be Sephiroth losing is what matters. His attacks, however, are meaningless. He can’t do anything to a single planet, let alone more than one. Oh I see.

So Sephiroth did not get destroyed physically or mentally in FFVII? Neither did any boss? Because they fought within a battle? You cannot say that. Sorry!

Sephiroth's attack has the capability to destroy planets and fusion with the Sun. Bottom line! Nothing you say can change that.

Yes! People can get shot and not die! That's right!

His attacks are meaningless? You're an ignorant fool. I'm down with this particular reminant of the debate.

I will read the rest of your argument, reply and I’m not saying anything more. You. Are. An. Idiot. There is not getting passed this, I can see. He can’t blow up a planet..he can’t do anything of that kind. It’s that frickin’ simple.

Watch your mouth. I wouldn't be calling a Moderator an Idiot.

Yes, he can blow up planets! And what is with this "He couldn't even blow up one!"

You do know it was never his purpose to blow up the planet, right?

He wanted to drain it's power to become a god; Then to use it as a vessel to travel amongst the stars . . . He wanted to follow in Jenova's footsteps.

And yes, unfortunately, he has the capability to directly control the direction of a Supernovae, he can create Supernovae and he can make then fusion with the sun to expand it. He's also proved he can withstand the power of a Supernovae and a sun by it going through him and doing nothing.


A. Yep. Been done. Lots of characters have emotional damage, I’m afraid.
B. Lots of characters have scars.
C. Yep. Friends and lovers have died in frotn of others who cared about them.
D. I was talking about the corresponding end fight scenes, dolt.

Irrelevant (The fact that it's happened before has nothing to do with Cloud), and this is the last time I'm going to warn you about name calling.




He was dead? Funny..I recall him saving the party and then talking with Zidane. So, fight ends with both groups wiped out. Draw.

Party lives. Enemy dies.

Not a draw.



Oh no. A source familiar with the game! I’m terrified. It is an official source? If it was, you’d have boasted it, I’m sure. So, I’ll take it that is’s not an official source and thus really pointless. Planet would be destroyed. All planet gone. Your interpretation of that quote has no more value over my own, I’m afraid.

Your quote means jack shit because it doesn't say the planet was disentergrated/blown up/dissipated or made to vanish from his explenitory power.

Your quote means nothing. It doesn't even back up your statement.

Stop fucking trolling.


Provide me an official quote saying otherwise.

Burden of proof, Logical Fallacy.

You're asking me to prove a negative when you obtain the burden of proof.

It is YOUR JOB to provide proof as to whether the planet was blown up because you first initiate the statement. You cannot ask me to provide proof to an unexistant front, Nikkolas.

FFS...


Oh and an accomplishment would be Kuja achieving his goals...a feat and demonstration of power would be destroying Terra. Difference.

Oh no! He carpet swept Terra!

Sephiroth was a Demi God. He accomplished half of his goals and Kuja did as well, but both were not able to accomplish 100% of their goals. Can you see at least that through your undestroyable bias to Kuja? Or what?



But you are saying it like it effin’ matters. It’s one flashy move in a battle that didnt’ even kill my party. It thus means nothing in the real world. The real world is people dying from gunshots. Not getting shot and losing HP. I just don’t care anymore. If you can’t understand this, I just wont’ bother with you anymore.

FFVII IS NOT IN THE FUCKING REAL WORLD, FOR FUCKS SAKE! IT IS A GAME, THEREFORE, REGULAR PHYSICS DO NOT APPLY! THIS WAS PROVEN WITH SEPHIROTH'S SUPERNOVA, WHICH ENABLED SUPERNOVAE TO BE MOBILE AND FUSION WITH THE SUN! YOU CANNOT SAY IT IS NOT REAL JUST BECAUSE IT'S A CUTSCENE! THAT'S BS!

FUCKING READ! READ! READ! AND FUCKIN' RRRRREEEEEEEEEEEAAAAAAADDDDD!

Just because it happened in a battle or in a cutscene doesn't mean it didn't happen. How foolish can you get with this ignorance?

Can’t link directly to GameFaqs files. Here’s the page.

http://www.gamefaqs.com/console/psx/game/197338.html

Pick one of the scripts to look at.

I do not see anything mentioned about Terra "blowing up".


What in the name of Heaven are you talking about...? After going into his Super Trance...

Kuja
"Yes! This is the power I've longed for!!!"The mighty power of souls! They assault any threat that tries to destroy them!"

Achieved his goal of ultimate power. His goal of ruling an eternal kingdom failed but he still got the power he sought which means he was victorious. It was just his victory was spoiled.

And that power still could not stand against the party. And he still failed to destroy existance AND rule a kingdom.

Sephiroth became uber powerful (Arguably more powerful than Kuja) and he wasn't even done trying to obtain Godlike powers, but he was still a Demi God!

No such thing as a super trance, only Trance Kuja.


Sephiroth sought power. Filaed. Kuja sought power. Succeeded. Difference.

Logical Fallacy.

That wasn't Kuja's sole mission. He didn't just want to obtain power and call it day. He wanted to destroy everything and obtain a kingdom. He failed.

Sephiroth wanted unlimited power. He got halfway there.

Difference.


Everyone who died on Gaia, the original people of Terra who slept in Pandemonium, and the party who were all killed by him would disagree he failed in any way, let alone miserably. However, Cloud’s group can claim 3 victories over him as of FFVII and FF: AC. As Meteor never even hit, I say he failed miserably.

Meteor hit what? HIT WHAT, FOR FUCKS SAKE!?

"Sephiroth's goal, as revealed later by Bugenhagen, is to sap the planet of its Lifestream with the aid of the Black Materia and its cataclysmic power referred to as Meteor."

He didn't want Meteor to hit anything! His goals were not parallel to Kuja's; He wanted power, not to destroy the planet.

And yes, Kuja failed. He didn't even recieve some unlimited power because the party was still able to overpower him. Plus, he didn't complete his other missions.

At least Sephiroth got halfway there.

Well, seeing as he is not an Anceitn and his mother was what killed the Ancients which comprised every reason for him being evil...then his entire motivation makes no sense. Good for him to stick to being a moron.

Someone who is persistant instead of giving up when they've lost is a moron? A bad villain?

It just proves how much more powerful and ambitious Sephiroth is compared to Kuja.

I mean . . . Has Sephiroth really ever been fully destroyed? He's obviously uber powerful and won't stay down.

Unlike Kuja . . . Fuck, Kuja's a bitch.

And WTF are you on? Sephiroth finds out Hojo and Lucrecia are his real parents, but he still wants unlimited power after that.

See? True Villain.

Difference.


Cut it on the explanation marks. Calm down. And Kuja had power...a la surviving a shot from the Invincible meant to kill him and laughing at a blast from the most powerful summon. And yes, Sephiroth had immense power at his disposal. So, one person had to use their intelligence to achieve their goal and power, while the other had powers laid in their lap...I wonder which is more intelligent.

Sephiroth didn't just have those powers, he had to earn them. Obtain them. Work for them. He sought out the most powerful entities/places within the planet and fucking stole the power and used it for himself to become an entity of terrible power.

Sephiroth had power; The ability to destroy planets, returning from being destroyed several times.

It looks like you have not played the game.

I believe what I said was “So yep, he could destroy all existence”

No, he could not, or else he would have.

If he could've destroyed existance, he would've!

Hell, he couldn't bring down a party of teenagers and kids with his power, so . . . How's he destroying existance? Hell, where's your proof he possessed the abilities to tear existance apart?


If I recall, the party beat him. He could have...and was about to. But didn’t. He did not attempt and try, if I recall. He never got the chance. So, give it up.

Lies.

He couldn't even sum the power to destroy some teenagers.

And like I said, that means he failed. Just like Sephiroth could've had Meteor, but didn't get the chance to obtain the power. He was stopped.





Party hurts Kuja

Kuja uses his most powerful attack.

Both are at point of death.D raw. Again, lying motionless and lifeless does not mean you won. Sorry. . .

The party died? They didn't come back to life? Kuja died? Did he come back to life?

Yes, Yes. Yes, No.

See the Ratio?



Interesting way to rot dead while talking to Zidane. And uh, I’m talking about the battle. The battle ended with ultima. So, yes, a draw.

LOL, ULTIMA WAS HIS MOST POWERFUL ATTACK?


HEHEHAHAHAHAHA!


Wait! It never really happened because it was in a battle, according to your Logic!

Hahahahahhaha! HAHAHAHA!


Or he didn’t want to? He was good at the end...and also, the mechanics of FFIX are nothing like FFVII? Souls don’t manifest and effect the world. Aeris and Sephiroth do so because of the method in which sonciousness becomes Life Energy for the Planet. As FFIX functions very differently, that kinda won’t work.

Kuja couldn't come back to life. If he was good, I'm sure he'd want to live.

He just couldn't, like you said.


Or he lacks the will or world to do so? Soul dies in FFIX, it goes away. Soul dies in FFVII, it goes to the Planet as the Lifestream which means powerful wills can resist it. So...yes, the world in which both live are vastly different and your assertion fails.

And, that's bullshit. When the IX Party died, where'd they go?

Remember how they came back to life? Where were they?

So see, they don't just die.

Nice double-negatives. And uh, Sephiroth had just found out he was the sole Ancient alive...which was wrong. And he proclaimed to be overjoyed and was quite maniacal with his joy. Tifa saw her hometown burned and her father killed. I’m sure she’s not as distressed as Seph at all...and I said she was upset, he was stronger and she used a sword she couldn’t use effectively. So, again, point is solid.

Double negative? Uh, sorry. There was none.

Tifa has defeated opponents who use swords. Don't use that as an excuse. And so Tifa should've been enraged with thoughts of revenge. This should've fueled her. Sephiroth was having a ball.

Don't pit that into the fighting mechanic, Nik. Tifa still got owned. Bottom line.



Sephiroth’s entire plot makes no sense. He claims to know the wisdom of the Ancients but is still a villain despite his entire reason for being a villain doesn’t exist as he should know. Sad, isn’t it.

Let me explain.

Sephiroth was imbued with Jenova's Cells when he became SOLDIER for Shinra. Sephiroth knows how to read. Sephiroth was already uber power.

Presumably thought dead, Sephiroth traveled the Lifestream, learning the truth of Jenova's true nature, before ending up in the Northern Cave sealed in Mako while absorbing Jenova's head. But though physically unable, Sephiroth hatched a plot to absorb the planet's energy, turning himself into a "god."

Sephiroth gained power and learned the history while he thought he was an Ancient.


Kuja’s original motives were to rule over everyone. Then, once he found out he would die, he decided existence should die. And Seph needed Meteor to hurt the Planet significantly which would translate into he can’t even fully destroy it on his own.

He failed to rule over everyone.

He failed to destroy existance.

Sephiroth did not want to hurt the planet with Meteor.

Damn, you don't understand anything. It's a pity, truthfully.

And Kuja’s actions provoked the working of an actual deity in Necron. His power was so immense that he could threaten all existence and this threat summoned Necron. So, I’m pretty sure Kuja was a demi-god.

Good for him! And a six year old can threaten to throw jupiter into my backyard.

Threats and actual actions are two very different things.

I'm sure Kuja was close to Demi God status, but no. He was not.

I see..and all of that was in-battle which is not canon to the game world...which makes them useless here. Besides, Ark is on part with Bahamut ZERO, bud. And I’m talking about what the summons could do FOR REAL. That means canon attacks. So, if I wanted, I coul dsay Garnet summons Atomos who then swallows FFVII’s party. Because that is canon from cutscenes.

Oh my god. I just about actually took my monitor and threw it out the window. I'm fucking serious.

STOP SAYING THAT SHIT THAT HAPPENS IN THE BATTLES IS NOT CANON.

I refuted this earlier. Go read above.

It swallows it, but the party returns. The cutscenes from within the battle is only a testament to display the actual power of the attack even though the attack is not actually followed through with, but is a testament to reveal true damage.

Read that four hundred times and it may just get through to you.

I end this debate until you discontinue your piss-poor bias to IX and appearance insults.

Appearance Results? Bias? You fool.

Who started bashing the looks of party members from VII? Who has an utmost, personal bias to Kuja's power?

I'm refuting everything you say. The most you can do at this point to avoid the fallacy is to apologize, or fight back with appearance insults. Don't label what I'm doing, because it's merely a rebuttal to what you had said.

Lol!

As I said, I’m done. This is too sad to even continue. I have argued with people on this topic for 4 years, bud. Yo won’t win because well, you think battle moves are real.

Four years?

*Waves hand in front of Nik's face*

Wow. You're so far gone.

Unfortunately, you've already lost.

Try again . . . If you want to get fucking smashed.

[Kamikz]

Sorgo, just about the attack. It does not do a trillion damage, it deals 6255 to Red, 6750 to Cid and 9374 to Cloud.

[Lord Sorgo]

Oh.

Oh well, still leaves each of them with hundreds and such.

[Nikkolas]

Sorgo, your argument uses quotes from a very dubious source and your own bias as its main point. It's not worth anything but here's some education in debating. A comparison I wrote between Kuja and Sephiroth, using the actual script as its backing for the major points.


Kuja vs. Sephiroth - the confrontation of the silver-haired Playstation sensation...s. Kuja, the poetic yet nearly unknown antagonist of Final Fantasy IX against Sephiroth, the universally-known and giant sword-wielding villain of Final Fantasy VII. There have been two threads like this in the past on this forum but both lacked a nice thorough evaluation of each character. I will provide this as the start for this topic.

SEPHIROTH

Motives- The key to any true good villain is their motivation. Why are they evil? Sephiroth was a noble soldier and war hero, admired by young men. One day, he goes on a mission and reads some books in a secret government laboratory.

Sephiroth: (reading a book) …an organism that was apparently dead, was found in 2000 year old geological stratum. Professor Gast named that organism, Jenova… Year, X Month, X Day. Jenova confirmed to be an Ancient …X Year, X Month, X
Day. Jenova Project approved. The use of Mako Reactor I approved for use… My other's name is Jenova… Jenova Project… Is this just a coincidence? Professor Ga st… Why didn't you tell me anything? …Why did you die?

Short time later...

Sephiroth: Don't you get it? An Ancient named Jenova was found in the geological stratum of 2000 years ago. The Jenova Project. The Jenova Project
wanted to produce people with the powers of the Ancients……no, the Cetra! …I am the one that was produced.


From the lies told him and his own bizarre logic, Sephiroth deduced he was “created” and a test-tube baby. This conveniently severed any ties he had with humanity which he seems to have also fabricated a story for.

Sephiroth: Long ago, disaster struck this planet. Your ancestors escaped… They survived because they hid. The Planet was saved by sacrificing the Cetra. After that, your ancestors continued to increase. Now all that's left of the Cetra is in these reports.

So, Sephiroth’s motives are a righteous hate for humanity. To avenge his “ancestors” and mother, he must kill and “take back” the Planet from humans. He then proceeds to perform his infamous rampage in Nibelheim.

But, isn’t this knowledge invalid? He wasn’t created. He wasn’t a Cetra. The “mother” of his was the real thing that wiped out the Cetra. This is fact. Yet, Sephiroth...

Sephiroth: ...Ah, but I have. I'm far superior to the Ancients. I became a traveler of the Lifestream and gained the knowledge and wisdom of the Ancients.

That is Sephiroth at the Temple of the Ancients. Examine these quotes well. He has gained the knowledge of the Ancients which would include his righteous hate for humanity being non-existent. Thus, his motivation and reasons for going evil are moot.

Power- Now, Sephiroth’s power..what is it? He went into the Lifestream and is now at Northern Crater. He’s stuck there, trapped in materia. His power (never even explained) was the ability to control Jenova’s body and the other Sephiroth clones. In this way, Aeris and the workers at Shinra HQ were killed. Sephiroth himself does absolutely nothing throughout the game except stay stuck in the Crater. His main goal and use of power to attain his goal was Meteor. However, Meteor can be used by anyone.

Aerith: Nope, we can't use it right now. You need great spiritual power to use it.

Cloud: You mean lots of Spiritual energy?

Aerith: That's right. One person's power alone won't do it. Somewhere special. Where there's plenty of the Planet's energy... Oh yeah! The Promised Land!

So, even the “great Sephiroth” to use the terminology of the Sephiroth clones and fans (who have a remarkable likeness in the extent of their brainpower) was incapable of wielding such magic. No one could unless they were at a place of immense power that gave them a big power boost. So, there goes Sephiroth’s amazing power right down the drain.

But, I suppose I should examine Advent Children. He then keeps his consciousness from being assimilated into the Lifestream thanks more to the Jenova cells he was born with than anything else and the three Silver-Haired Men are born. In the end, Kadaj gains Jenova’s head and here is Sephiroth again. His goal now - to traverse the stars using the Jenova cells to contaminate and control the Planet. Again, not his power. Jenova’s. He’s piggybacking on it.

Appearance- Now we al know we are shallow and how a character looks can sway our opinion. Sephiroth is very stereotypical for a villain. Dressed all in black, rather tall and armed with a massive blade, he represents what most villains should look like and what you expect them to look like.

Accomplishments-
Burned down and kill some people in Nibelheim
Used Jenova’s body to kill people in Shinra HQ.
Killed Aeris
Summoned Meteor - failed to achieve goal of this accomplishment
Held off Holy
Came back after being defeated and was defeated again.


KUJA

Motives- Kuja was born a Genome, a specially-designed creature named for a seed used to create them. He was defective, however, and was planned to be disposed of after he had served his purpose of being a placeholder Angel of Death.

Garland: His ambition was unbecoming of a Genome, but it was perfect for the mission I gave him. To bring war and chaos to Gaia...

And so, Kuja’s desires and lust born from his own ideas and egoism were not in accordance with the mission Genomes should hold dear. However, this destructive nature was perfect for Garland.

That was Kuja’s initial motivations, showing he was a natural-born tool of destruction but had ideas of using that destructive might for his own ends. His plan to achieve the power he longed for was thus.

Kuja: You two just don't get it! I need an eidolon more powerful than Alexander! An eidolon with the power to bury Garland! His powers are so incredible; I cannot even come close. I must destroy him before Terra's plan is activated, or my soul will no longer be my own! Who cares if she lives? I want that eidolon!

His goal was to gain the most powerful summon, a summon which could destroy Garland which would both destroy his most powerful and hated nemesis as well as removing the chance his soul would be taken from him. He first used the benevolent Queen of Alexandria, Queen Brahne, to summon Bahamut. Taking control fo Bahamut, he destroyed Queen Brahne and her entire fleet. He then attacked Alexandria with the out-of-control Bahamut but it was destroyed by THE most powerful eidolon, Alexander. When Kuja attempted to seize Alexander however, he was thwarted by Garland. When the new attempt at taking an eidolon from Eiko failed, he concocted a new scheme after witnessing her moogle going into Trance.

Kuja: So...an eruption of anger against one's surroundings induces a complete Trance! It's not the will to live, nor is it the desire to protect another!

Kuja: That means...I simply need a powerful soul, even if that soul is not my own! No, wait... And it can be found there!

Time goes by and the party reaches Terra. Kuja expresses very well how stupid they all are.

Kuja: I must say... I truly love you all. You not only broke the seal to Terra, but did me the favor of defeating Garland!

He then fights the party and they help him even more! They help him go into Trance.

Kuja: It's Trance! You know how it works. But a normal Trance won't be enough to defeat you... You're all as resilient as oglops. Even tiny
moogles possess the power of Trance... When I saw that in Gulug Volcano, I came up with a plan. It was easy. I just needed to borrow the power
from wretched souls that can't die... Where did I acquire it? It was the Invincible, or should I say, that large eyeball in the sky?

So, his plan shifted a good portion through the game and his own brilliance and cunning led to this new plan being a complete success. Well, almost...

Kuja: A mortal...? ...I'm finished? I don't believe you! Why would I believe such a silly story! You're telling me that I'll die soon, now that I'm more powerful than anyone? I'm gonna...die!? Lose my soul...?

Kuja: ...I won't let it happen. I won't... I won't let this world exist without me!

Kuja, who had lived for power, finally had the unrivaled might he sought. However, his life was at an end. He summed it up pretty bluntly later on in the Crystal World

Kuja: Why should the world exist without me? That wouldn't be fair. If I die, we all die!

To an egocentric narcissist, the world should end if they die. If their time has come, then all others have absolutely no right to live.

He then engages in a battle with the party. You could say he was beaten but he then unleashed Ultima which, depending on your own speculation, may have killed the entire party.It’s not known how they got before Necron in such a place resembling a spiritual door or afterlife as well as members of the party having to give their power to the others so they may battle.

Power- Kuja’s power is truly immense. A mage of immense proportions, he was able to create the entire Black Mage race and the Mistodons to be used against his opponents. His power was so great, he let himself be openly targeted and hit by a straight blast from Bahamut and merely laughed at it. He then survived a blast from the Invincible, the most powerful weapon in Final Fantasy IX, and survived. His main noticeable power is his incredible intellect which allowed him to manipulate a continental war that cost thousands of deaths by using a kind queen. Not mind control but actual manipulation which is a bit more difficult as you must use your brain to make the person act in accordance with your objective. This power also allowed him also to conceive of the plan of using the Invincible to achieve his full power. He thus became a demi-god, a being nearly more powerful than any other in an RPG short of Id and Lavos.

Appearance- Kuja’s appearance is said to be “feminine.” Not only is his face not feminine in the least but nice hips and a thong makes him a great villain. Why, you may ask. Well, do you see the guy in the thong with make-up as the ultimate villain who brings about mass death and chaos? No? Well then, that works perfectly. Besides, a lot of guys wear thongs. It’s nothing that special. Any number of characters may wear thongs under their pants but you can’t see it. Kuja is in love with his own idea of his superiority which would translate into his gladly displaying his body. A narcissist is in love with his appearance.

Accomplishments-
Used Queen Brahne to devastate Burmecia, killing dozens there. Used Brahne to destroy Cleyra, killing everyone there. Used Brahne to attack Lindblum and kill many there.
Created the Black Mages, a race born for warfare and death.
Anticipated and used Queen Brahne one final time to summon Bahamut. Then corrupted Bahamut and destroyed Brahne and her fleet.
Formulated quickly and then put into action his Trance Plan which gave him more power than any other being on the planet.
Created the Chaos Guardians, Memoria and Deathguise.

conclusion

Kuja beats Sephiroth in motivation, appearance, power and accomplishments.

I like all the profanity, though. keep it up. It suits your type of debating and brain capacity perfectly.

And these types of arguments don't end because there's only one person on each side and you won't stop debating even when the facts are totally against you. You can't concede defeat... I have better things to do than read everything you say when everythign that's been said has been said before and replied to before. So, please, enjoy your time in this thread and stop being so lame. I'm inclined to post a topic seeing if anyone thinks you won this debate.

Don't double post. The next time is an official warning.

[Lord Sorgo]

I like all the profanity, though. keep it up. It suits your type of debating and brain capacity perfectly.

And these types of arguments don't end because there's only one person on each side and you won't stop debating even when the facts are totally against you. You can't concede defeat... I have better things to do than read everything you say when everythign that's been said has been said before and replied to before. So, please, enjoy your time in this thread and stop being so lame. I'm inclined to post a topic seeing if anyone thinks you won this debate.


HAHAHA! Are you serious? (Don't double post next time, BTW)

You couldn't even reply to my argument. You had to fork up some shit-ass scripture summary (Which is completely biased to Kuja, BTW, even going as far as saying a guy with purple hair, feminine looks and a fucking G-string is cool.) which isn't even yours (Spelling is different, grammar is more correct, more punctual wording is used, syntax is precise and the diction is key.)



The information I got from Wikipedia was wrong? If so, can you point out what parts I stated that were incorrect? I mean, since you want to call it such an unreliable and shakey source, tell me what you saw wrong.

Don't avoid this question like you did with the last twenty questions I've fucking asked.


Nik, don't judge my debating when you couldn't debate your way out of a paper bag. So I swear . . . That's relevant to what again? I can't seem to fucking remember.

Come back when you reply to my argument instead of avoiding it with some half-assed biased essay and more irrelevant verbal diarrhea.


KTHNXBYE

[Nikkolas]

Hm...your amazing debating skills...

FFVII IS NOT IN THE FUCKING REAL WORLD, FOR FUCKS SAKE! IT IS A GAME, THEREFORE, REGULAR PHYSICS DO NOT APPLY! THIS WAS PROVEN WITH SEPHIROTH'S SUPERNOVA, WHICH ENABLED SUPERNOVAE TO BE MOBILE AND FUSION WITH THE SUN! YOU CANNOT SAY IT IS NOT REAL JUST BECAUSE IT'S A CUTSCENE! THAT'S BS!

Wow. i'm blown away.

You couldn't even reply to my argument. You had to fork up some shit-ass scripture summary (Which is completely biased to Kuja, BTW, even going as far as saying a guy with purple hair, feminine looks and a fucking G-string is cool.) which isn't even yours (Spelling is different, grammar is more correct, more punctual wording is used, syntax is precise and the diction is key.)

Wow. Now you don't even know his hair color. Just fess up and say you didn't play the game, dumbass.

I'm nto replying to yoru post because I covered everything you said on page 1.

1. Supernova can't destroy planets.
2. Sephiroth was defeated in AC.
3. Kuja could go holocaust on a world or blow it up in minutes.
4. Sephiroth can't.

See? That's all we have been saying the first and second page and I'm quite bored of it. Not to mention you seem so upset and I don't think i want to argue with someone who can't even go a post without saying "fuck." Grow up.

And if anything made me wonder if you understand either game, it was this.

Sephiroth did not want to hurt the planet with Meteor.

I mean, why am I even bothering to argue with you if you don't even know the simplest of facts?

Sephiroth: It's simple. Once the Planet is hurt, it gathers Spirit Energy to
heal the injury. The amount of energy gathered depends on the size of the
injury. ...What would happen if there was an injury that threatened the very
life of the Planet? Think how much energy would be gathered! Ha ha ha. And at the center of that injury, will be me. All that boundless energy will be mine.
By merging with all the energy of the Planet, I will become a new life form, a
new existence. Melding with the Planet... I will cease to exist as I am now...
Only to be reborn as a 'God' to rule over every soul.

I'm done with you. Learn what you're talking about in future or dont' debate.

[Veneficus]

Ok this is pathetic. Sorgo you're supposed to be a mod... not a member who get's all overworked just because some guy claims that Kuja could defeat Sephiroth. While, I will admit that Nikkolas has been a bit disrespectful, but it's not like you have any claim to get mad. Most of your posts are riddled with useless profanity and insults. Plus your last few arguments were rather pitiful. Instead of refuting them you just made some insulting remarks and made a general ass out of yourself.

Granted we all do it, but dude your a mod and are supposed to have higher standards than getting into a frenzy over some guy who disagrees with you on Sephiroth's power.

[Lord Sorgo]

Hm...your amazing debating skills...



Wow. i'm blown away.



Wow. Now you don't even know his hair color. Just fess up and say you didn't play the game, dumbass.

Okay, I will not tell you again about the name calling.

I don't care about Zidane's hair color, FFS! We're referring to feats here. And quote me on where I fucked up on his hair coloring, please.

I'm nto replying to yoru post because I covered everything you said on page 1.

1. Supernova can't destroy planets.
2. Sephiroth was defeated in AC.
3. Kuja could go holocaust on a world or blow it up in minutes.
4. Sephiroth can't.

See? That's all we have been saying the first and second page and I'm quite bored of it. Not to mention you seem so upset and I don't think i want to argue with someone who can't even go a post without saying "fuck." Grow up.

Oh no! I said fuck!

Lol, look at IKC; He's one of the best debators on this forum and he says "fuck" constantly during debates.

Don't judge me with irrelevant nonsense. You'll just look worse.

1. From what we saw, the capability was apparent. The purpose of the cutscenes is to map out capability.
2. Yes, but he held the opportunity to destroy Cloud and outmaneuvered him AND had him on the defense for the entire duel.
3. Prove it, considering he has not been seen blowing up any planets.
4. Sephiroth can't what?

He can’t even blow up a single planet with his own power.

^ Oh looky! Looks like I caught it before you edited it.

He can’t even damage a single planet with his own power.

Wait, look at this!

Last edited by Nikkolas : 10-04-2006 at 11:47 PM.

^ Edited today, a few minutes ago.

You thought Sephiroth intended to blow up the planet. You obtain ignorance and you even went as far as attempting to cover it up.





I mean, why am I even bothering to argue with you if you don't even know the simplest of facts?

Sephiroth: It's simple. Once the Planet is hurt, it gathers Spirit Energy to
heal the injury. The amount of energy gathered depends on the size of the
injury. ...What would happen if there was an injury that threatened the very
life of the Planet? Think how much energy would be gathered! Ha ha ha. And at the center of that injury, will be me. All that boundless energy will be mine.
By merging with all the energy of the Planet, I will become a new life form, a
new existence. Melding with the Planet... I will cease to exist as I am now...
Only to be reborn as a 'God' to rule over every soul.

I'm done with you. Learn what you're talking about in future or dont' debate.

Would you like me to get a quote of what you claimed?

You said "Sephiroth couldn't even blow up a planet!"

He wasn't trying to blow up the planet! He wanted to injure the planet severely. If he had destroyed the planet utterly, he would not be able to collect the power it possesses.

And it wasn't like he could just blow up holes in the planet and it would give him energy. He had to be precise and make sure he didn't over-injure the planet and screw up the healing process.

Not to mention he was constantly being interrupted.

Ok this is pathetic. Sorgo you're supposed to be a mod... not a member who get's all overworked just because some guy claims that Kuja could defeat Sephiroth. While, I will admit that Nikkolas has been a bit disrespectful, but it's not like you have any claim to get mad. Most of your posts are riddled with useless profanity and insults. Plus your last few arguments were rather pitiful. Instead of refuting them you just made some insulting remarks and made a general ass out of yourself.

Granted we all do it, but dude your a mod and are supposed to have higher standards than getting into a frenzy over some guy who disagrees with you on Sephiroth's power.

Indeed I am being a bit out of line, his posts are tearing my nerves to sheer shreds. He keeps on taunting me with comments like "You don't know what you're talking about, You can't debate, your intelligence is low . . . "

He keeps on trolling by resurfacing information and insults by generally ignoring some of the previous comments he made by replying with irrelevant nonsense not even close to the comments he made.

[Veneficus]

Indeed I am being a bit out of line, his posts are tearing my nerves to sheer shreds. He keeps on taunting me with comments like "You don't know what you're talking about, You can't debate, your intelligence is low . . . "

He keeps on trolling by resurfacing information and insults by generally ignoring some of the previous comments he made by replying with irrelevant nonsense not even close to the comments he made.

I understand your fustration, I just thought it might help to cool things down in here.

Now as for the topic, I can't say since I have not played FF9 and don't know enough about Kuja.

[Lord Sorgo]

It's just . . . His arguments are riddled with Fallacy.

I know mine probably have a few, but some of the statements he comes out with, like WTF?

[Nikkolas]

I don't care about Zidane's hair color, FFS! We're referring to feats here. And quote me on where I fucked up on his hair coloring, please.


Which is completely biased to Kuja, BTW, even going as far as saying a guy with purple hair, feminine looks and a fucking G-string is cool.)

Right there. And don't worry. I know how Kuja looks is the only eason you don't like him and you try to justify it with other lies and distortions but such is the tactic of the mindless mass who hates him. HE HAS GIRLY HIPS!! HE'S TEH GAY!! You should just say that and give up this act.

You thought Sephiroth intended to blow up the planet. You obtain ignorance and you even went as far as attempting to cover it up.

I like this statement because it's so fitting ot your personality and debating style. You were pwned so you chose to make a quote of mine say something it didn't. I said Sephiroth couldn't blow up a planet on his own. Did I say anywhere that was what he wanted to do? Nope. I said he couldn't even if he wanted to. So...very, very suited to you.

Would you like me to get a quote of what you claimed?

You said "Sephiroth couldn't even blow up a planet!"

He wasn't trying to blow up the planet! He wanted to injure the planet severely. If he had destroyed the planet utterly, he would not be able to collect the power it possesses.

lol Oh, god you are really embarrassing yourself. I mean...look. Look what you said.

Sephiroth did not want to hurt the planet with Meteor.

So, since I trashed your statement with evidence from the game you choose to just attack me. Just admit you effed up.

Indeed I am being a bit out of line, his posts are tearing my nerves to sheer shreds. He keeps on taunting me with comments like "You don't know what you're talking about, You can't debate, your intelligence is low . . . "

He keeps on trolling by resurfacing information and insults by generally ignoring some of the previous comments he made by replying with irrelevant nonsense not even close to the comments he made.

Such a very wise tactic. When you're caught and put on the defensive, you throw out insults. Brilliant. I mean, it's certainly in line with the philosophy the best defense is a good offense except your offense isn't that good so...your defense is pretty weak, too. But, I should know I can't expect much from you. Still, really brave and noble of you to pass the buck. Harry Truman is rolling over in his grave.

Now let's relax...cool things downa nd have a nice bit of humor. *plays the clown music*

He didn't want Meteor to hit anything!
He wanted to injure the planet severely.
Sephiroth did not want to hurt the planet with Meteor.
He wanted to injure the planet severely.

And the laughs just keep coming!

Double negative? Uh, sorry. There was none.
Nice misdirection, but it won't get you nowhere.

And the coup de grace

Watch your mouth. I wouldn't be calling a Moderator an Idiot.

There is some expression...that goes...like...respect has to be earned. Frankly...you've not earned it. not by a long shot. And for the following quotes demonstrate why that is.

Hell, he couldn't bring down a party of teenagers and kids with his power, so . . . How's he destroying existance? Hell, where's your proof he possessed the abilities to tear existance apart?

Idiot.

Good for him! And a six year old can threaten to throw jupiter into my backyard.

And idiot. See, you didn't play the game. Fess up to that now, please. I'm begging you to spare yourself the embarrassment of further stupidity of immense proprtions by just saying you didn't play the game and know nothing.

Kuja: "It's the original crystal... This is where it all began..."
"The birthplace of all things..."
"Once I destroy it, everything will be gone."
"Gaia, Terra, the universe, everything..."
"Your lives and memories, too, of course. HA-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA!"

Now...tell me. In whatever twisted blob of unused matter that serves for your brain does a six-year-old threatening to throw a planet have anything to do with Kuja threatening existence? One warratns ridicule while the other warranted Garland struggling to stay alive to aid the party and then brought forth Necron. Not only do you show you never played the game, but you also show bias by denying an actual part of the game and poor memory as well since I alread posted that quote.

And, that's bullshit. When the IX Party died, where'd they go?

Remember how they came back to life? Where were they?

So see, they don't just die.

Not a valid example at all. No proof they were even really dead. Only speculation. no one even knows what Necron really was. So...your attempt fails.

And WTF are you on? Sephiroth finds out Hojo and Lucrecia are his real parents, but he still wants unlimited power after that.

As Sephiroth never said anything of the kind in AC or the game, you are lying. He still refers to jenova as mother in AC.

Unlike Kuja . . . Fuck, Kuja's a bitch.

No. He was smart. Hekinda knew things Seph could learn from. like...having an IQ over 30. As everything Sephiroth did makes no sense, his reasons for being a villan don't exist and he's raching Bowser level in terms of defeats, I'd say Kuja could teach him a few things.

Someone who is persistant instead of giving up when they've lost is a moron? A bad villain?

It just proves how much more powerful and ambitious Sephiroth is compared to Kuja.

Nope. Sephiroth has no reason to be evil. he has no reason to want to be a god. He has no reason to be a villain. He has no reason to continue to violate games with his presence. He thought he was a Cetra which made him a villain. he isn't. He thought Jenova was his Mother and that she was a Cetra. She isn't. He thought humanity let the Cetra die. They didn't. His reasons for being a villain don't exist.

No such thing as a super trance, only Trance Kuja.

True. But it's correct. A unique trance with power beyond any other Trance thanks to augmentation.

Sephiroth was a Demi God. He accomplished half of his goals and Kuja did as well, but both were not able to accomplish 100% of their goals. Can you see at least that through your undestroyable bias to Kuja? Or what?

No bias. Just facts. Kuja wanted power and to rule the world. Got power. Failed to rule the world. Sephroth wanted power. Failed.

Your quote means jack shit because it doesn't say the planet was disentergrated/blown up/dissipated or made to vanish from his explenitory power.

Your quote means nothing. It doesn't even back up your statement.

Stop fucking trolling.

Again, quote is open for interpretation. i can say he blew it up. you can say he carpet swept it. Neither is more valid than the other.

Irrelevant (The fact that it's happened before has nothing to do with Cloud), and this is the last time I'm going to warn you about name calling.
You're a fool who is obviously COMPLETELY ignorant to movie physics.

Hypocrite and idiot.


He allowed him to live. It's honestly that simple. And Sephiroth wasn't killed or anything, his testament was obvious; He will return.

Unless there is another game or movie made, he's dead.

[Janus]

Alright, this is enough. No more replies from either of you.

Nikkolas, "idiot", while expressing your feelings at the moment, isn't an appropriate thing to lob in with your argument. Structurally, your argument appears the better of the two, but I don't have the time to actually double check it at the moment. Just avoid slinging out blatant personal insults and you're golden.

Sorgo, don't let a debate get out of hand like this again.

[Lord Sorgo]

Oh my god. I just read your post.

That sucks. I had such a great reply in store.