Membership Cleanout

[Illustrious]

For the first time on EoD, we will be conducting a membership cleanout. That means, all member accounts with 0 posts or no logons for 2 weeks will be cleaned out. Email notifications have been sent out to the members who meet the above criteria. This notice will be up for a week before the cleanout commences. Deleted accounts can not be restored, so if you still wish to keep yours, you must no longer satisfy the above two conditions.

For future record, all new accounts who do not log on for three weeks will be given an email notice, if they fail to login after for 14 days after that email notice, they will be deleted, no exemptions are given to post count. If you are anticipating being gone for five weeks, please post a notice in the Introduction Forum in order to let the staff know.

[Syren]

It seems I was exempt. Allow me to apologise for my absence, I've been extrememly busy in RL with work. But I'm here now, I hope I'm forgiven.

[Sandman]

Exempt? Oh no, we have a special room for you where you can earn your forgiveness!

Don't mind the white spots on the floor and walls.

P.S. Yes I'm following you, youre the only one posting.

[Syren]

You disgust me :p

[Sandman]

Is that a good thing?

Erm, insert some on topic stuff here so I don't get in trouble, and so my post is long enough.

[Lord Sorgo]

I've only got one referral in my profile and I've brought over five members here.


:(

[Syren]

I've only got one referral in my profile and I've brought over five members here.


:(

How do the referrals work? Do you have to provide them with your ID number?

[Lord Sorgo]

I think people refer you by member name when they register.

[Syren]

I think people refer you by member name when they register.

Is it a standard question during registration or do you have to inform them before they register? Because I'm thinking that your referrals would be more likely to have been counted, in fact guaranteed, if during registration it was asked outright as to whether someone had referred the new member. If that makes sense. Bad English.

[Lord Sorgo]

I don't know.

I think there is a fill-in where you can state the members name. I'm not too sure now, though.

[Syren]

It should certainly be mandatory. You deserve the credit :)

[Lord Sorgo]

Maybe it should be.

I'm just trying to figure out how the rep system works.

[Fishy]

Not to critisize but I think is the most idiotic idea ever...

Delete accounts that have not been active for longer and by longer I mean a really long time. And don't try to force members to keep posting here or give you a heads up on when they will be back. Sometimes the greatest members of forums just can't know and will have leave for some time. Sometimes they can't even post a reason... Deleting their accounts won't make you keep members it will just keep them away or at least keep some from returning. I know I wouldn't return if I found my account deleted for no good reason after being away for some time.

[Lord Sorgo]

You present an interesting point.

[Illustrious]

Take the spam into the spam thread. Don't clutter the announcements.

Not to critisize but I think is the most idiotic idea ever...

Delete accounts that have not been active for longer and by longer I mean a really long time. And don't try to force members to keep posting here or give you a heads up on when they will be back. Sometimes the greatest members of forums just can't know and will have leave for some time. Sometimes they can't even post a reason... Deleting their accounts won't make you keep members it will just keep them away or at least keep some from returning. I know I wouldn't return if I found my account deleted for no good reason after being away for some time.

You're missing the point. Ultimately, EoD could care less if the members who were absent for 5 weeks without any notice whatsoever had their accounts deleted. If they were dedicated in the first place, they would reregister. Members lost all their posts from the old IF version and that did little to deter them from registering here.

You don't even need to post, as long as you have logged in once every 5 weeks, and if you forget to (and if you do, it probably means you weren't a dedicated member to begin with), you get an automatic email notification.

And, if that wasn't failproof enough, you can post a notice and get moved into a safe, inactive usergroup and keep your account indefinitely. There are more than enough ways to prevent your account from being deleted. But let's face it, accounts that have zero posts or accounts that haven't even been touched for well over a month are simply taking up dead space.

[Syren]

Another quick point, whilst you're here, the closing of threads which have been, admittedly, derailed and turned into discussion threads; is this really necessary? I mean, I would have thought the close function would be used where threads are being filled with real spam such as links to other forums, or just abusive behaviour and comments towards members. I think that chatter amongst forum members shouldn't be reason enough to close a thread, to be honest. It seems a little oppressive.

[Lord Sorgo]

What if someone suddenly cannot afford the internet and gets spontaneously cut off? And what if they're too busy not to log on a PC for five weeks? Or their PC in unable to work properly?

That wouldn't be too fair.

[Syren]

It works overall though, I suppose the only benefit of leaving dead accounts as they are is member count. Although I do feel that the dead accounts are harmless, and deleting them is a little OTT as the member should always have the option to return.

[Fishy]

Take the spam into the spam thread. Don't clutter the announcements.



You're missing the point. Ultimately, EoD could care less if the members who were absent for 5 weeks without any notice whatsoever had their accounts deleted. If they were dedicated in the first place, they would reregister. Members lost all their posts from the old IF version and that did little to deter them from registering here.

You don't even need to post, as long as you have logged in once every 5 weeks, and if you forget to (and if you do, it probably means you weren't a dedicated member to begin with), you get an automatic email notification.

And, if that wasn't failproof enough, you can post a notice and get moved into a safe, inactive usergroup and keep your account indefinitely. There are more than enough ways to prevent your account from being deleted. But let's face it, accounts that have zero posts or accounts that haven't even been touched for well over a month are simply taking up dead space.

It's only full proof with worthless members. Now take this for example, I don't know this rule because I left before it was created. Then my internet is cut off or for some reason I don't have the ability or the desire to post here then for some reason I come back and my account is deleted. Yeah that will make me happy, PM's gone post history gone. Username gone and possibly taken again... Not a good thing.

Look i'm all for deleting members that are inactive and join and then never post but all the rest should stay.

And i have seen plenty of people who post a few hundred posts then dissapear for months just to return after that and start posting again and then become very active. How active do you think they would become if their account was gone? They obviously just came back for some quick fun and later on decided to stay, but would you re-register? Plenty of them wouldn't... So seriously I see almost no good things in this thing and some that are useful but manual deletion is a far safer way of doing that...

I must say I also agree on the closing thing, but well if that's the way you want to run this place that's fine. Nothing really wrong with that...

[Lord Sorgo]

Illustrious, may you tell me the whole purpose of this account deletion process?

[Syren]

It for cleanliness, there's not really another point. Although, as I said, the 'dead' accounts don't actually do any harm. Do they drag on the forum resources? I can't imagine they do, especially if they're practically unused.

[Lord Sorgo]

Forum Resources? Care to elaborate, because I don't see them taking up space.

Unless there is space limits.

[Syren]

Exactly what I meant by asking if they drag on forum resources. I can't see how either.

[Fishy]

No they don't... Unless this forum is privately hosted in which case it could take up web traffic from the site and make it go over the data limit. But that would require thousands of members to post actively and non active members? It would require a million or so. No way in hell that it would even make an impact.

[Syren]

So it's pointless.

[Fishy]

So it's pointless.

Depends I guess... Having 200 accounts and only 10 active members can be seen as annoying...

[Illustrious]

It's only full proof with worthless members. Now take this for example, I don't know this rule because I left before it was created. Then my internet is cut off or for some reason I don't have the ability or the desire to post here then for some reason I come back and my account is deleted. Yeah that will make me happy, PM's gone post history gone. Username gone and possibly taken again... Not a good thing.

Look i'm all for deleting members that are inactive and join and then never post but all the rest should stay.

And i have seen plenty of people who post a few hundred posts then dissapear for months just to return after that and start posting again and then become very active. How active do you think they would become if their account was gone? They obviously just came back for some quick fun and later on decided to stay, but would you re-register? Plenty of them wouldn't... So seriously I see almost no good things in this thing and some that are useful but manual deletion is a far safer way of doing that...

I must say I also agree on the closing thing, but well if that's the way you want to run this place that's fine. Nothing really wrong with that... How many of these members do not log in at all for weeks at a time? This isn't about posting, this is about logging in. As long as the member has logged in (from any computer), he is exempt from the prune.

The process is pretty simple, if you have not logged in for 25 days (over 3 weeks), you will be sent an email reminding you to log back on the forum. Then, if you still do not log in for an additional 15 days (over 2 weeks), your account will be deleted. That's nearly 6 weeks for anyone who wants to keep their account. There are few circumstances that would account for a sudden absence of this length. And you may tell an admin to move you to inactive at any time during this interval.

Also, as I said before, a member who has lost their account can still come back on to the boards. All of you lost your IF accounts and reregistered to hop right back in.

As for closing threads, the Rules define the spam policy pretty concisely. As expressed numerous times by Janus and myself, the lack of useless, "noob" posts is what separates EoD from KMC. You have a shoutbox, IM, or even a spam thread for posting your spam and socializing. EoD is now it's own standalone forum, it is not just a hangout based from KMC.

EoD is a discussion forum. You are to discuss issues related to the topic of the thread. This does not include posting personal text that simply takes up space. Your agreement with the rules binds you to not make these types of spamming posts.

Also, I'm not sure how many of you have hosted professional forum software before, but posting, private messaging, and searching (especially searching) takes system resources, adds to server load, and slows down the site for everyone else. Additionally, it is extremely disorganized and aesthetically displeasing for a guest to look at page after page of hijacked threads and short, pointless, and annoying messages.

[Fishy]

How many of these members do not log in at all for weeks at a time? This isn't about posting, this is about logging in. As long as the member has logged in (from any computer), he is exempt from the prune.

The process is pretty simple, if you have not logged in for 25 days (over 3 weeks), you will be sent an email reminding you to log back on the forum. Then, if you still do not log in for an additional 15 days (over 2 weeks), your account will be deleted. That's nearly 6 weeks for anyone who wants to keep their account. There are few circumstances that would account for a sudden absence of this length. And you may tell an admin to move you to inactive at any time during this interval.

People who don't post for three or four months often don't log in during that time either. Some of the greatest posting members of forums have just suddenly left one day without reason and didn't come until six months later. They would have to do some annoying shit to get their account back, and if you save all data then it doesn't save you space either so it's pretty useless.

And then there are people who for some reason just lost their internet connection. It has happened that can easily take two months. Meaning they are banned.

Also, as I said before, a member who has lost their account can still come back on to the boards. All of you lost your IF accounts and reregistered to hop right back in.

So what's the space benefit then?

As for closing threads, the Rules define the spam policy pretty concisely. As expressed numerous times by Janus and myself, the lack of useless, "noob" posts is what separates EoD from KMC. You have a shoutbox, IM, or even a spam thread for posting your spam and socializing. EoD is now it's own standalone forum, it is not just a hangout based from KMC.

EoD is a discussion forum. You are to discuss issues related to the topic of the thread. This does not include posting personal text that simply takes up space. Your agreement with the rules binds you to not make these types of spamming posts.

I agree here, but then again I don't see a lot of new people joining and you could ask yourself the question, how many of them do you want if they are unable to enjoy a bit of friendly fun?


Also, I'm not sure how many of you have hosted professional forum software before, but posting, private messaging, and searching (especially searching) takes system resources, adds to server load, and slows down the site for everyone else. Additionally, it is extremely disorganized and aesthetically displeasing for a guest to look at page after page of hijacked threads and short, pointless, and annoying messages.

4 or 5, including one with more then 500 members...

It doesn't have to take up a lot of space at all... The only thing that takes up space is hosting sigs and all that crap the forum itself is ussually not mroe then a few MB's... Even a forum with tens of thousands of members can be less then some providers give out in datastorage for their cheap subscriptions. It's the sigs and the avatars and the attachments and the locally hosted images that take up the real space. Keep that from happening and there will be no size problem simple as that.

[Illustrious]

People who don't post for three or four months often don't log in during that time either. Some of the greatest posting members of forums have just suddenly left one day without reason and didn't come until six months later. They would have to do some annoying shit to get their account back, and if you save all data then it doesn't save you space either so it's pretty useless.

And then there are people who for some reason just lost their internet connection. It has happened that can easily take two months. Meaning they are banned.

The problem here is that you're effectively saying an activity policy is impossible to implement. Obviously, for the sake of organization, there needs to be an activity policy; unless of course, you have a better idea.

So what's the space benefit then?

It isn't an issue of space. It's an issue of organization and server load. If I have to search the database through 50 members, it's a lot less of a load of searching through 500 members.

I agree here, but then again I don't see a lot of new people joining and you could ask yourself the question, how many of them do you want if they are unable to enjoy a bit of friendly fun?

The problem is that you're assuming you can't have a few off-topic posts.

The truth is, you are. You are allowed some deviation from the topic. However, dozen post long back-and-forths are reserved for other places. You can still post them, but you should respect the topic and post them in the shoutbox or the spam thread.

We didn't give you a spam thread and shoutbox just so you can spam other threads.

The way I look at it, it's far more annoying to be a new member, post a thread looking for genuine opinion, and then have it degenerate into a giant panty raid.

4 or 5, including one with more then 500 members...

It doesn't have to take up a lot of space at all... The only thing that takes up space is hosting sigs and all that crap the forum itself is ussually not mroe then a few MB's... Even a forum with tens of thousands of members can be less then some providers give out in datastorage for their cheap subscriptions. It's the sigs and the avatars and the attachments and the locally hosted images that take up the real space. Keep that from happening and there will be no size problem simple as that.

It's not space, like I said. If you ever watched a server load chart, it spikes way up whenever someone conducts a search.

If people post dozens of useless posts, or if there are hundreds of inactive members, people are more inclined to use the search feature to sort through them and each search takes up more resources.

[Fishy]

The problem here is that you're effectively saying an activity policy is impossible to implement. Obviously, for the sake of organization, there needs to be an activity policy; unless of course, you have a better idea.

Manual deletion.. That way you can delete members completely. Members that haven't posted. Have rarely posted and haven't come back in a long time, and you can keep members that are posting. But seriously this forum isn't big enough to need anything of the sorts. Still if you think that it needs cleaning up manual is the way to go. And it wouldn't require that much work, because there simply aren't that many members.


It isn't an issue of space. It's an issue of organization and server load. If I have to search the database through 50 members, it's a lot less of a load of searching through 500 members.

And how many users do you have? and 500 is hardly worth mentioning... But even if it was this place doesn't have that and manual deletion is still a very good option...


The problem is that you're assuming you can't have a few off-topic posts.

I actually said that I agreed with you here...


We didn't give you a spam thread and shoutbox just so you can spam other threads.

The way I look at it, it's far more annoying to be a new member, post a thread looking for genuine opinion, and then have it degenerate into a giant panty raid.

The key here and this is something I have always noticed in forums managed by you guys is going over the top and hoping for a huge ass forum that you simply don't have... Spam isn't spam in an introduction thread. Spam isn't spam in an chatter thread, it isn't spam in a photo thread. Spam should be dealt with hard in discussion threads, in RP threads or anything of a serious nature. A greeting or something like that however isn't serious and letting it be "spammed" is better then locking it.

Where do you think you would join sooner a place where a lot of threads are locked or a place where people sometimes spam but at least all the serious things are spam free?



It's not space, like I said. If you ever watched a server load chart, it spikes way up whenever someone conducts a search.

If people post dozens of useless posts, or if there are hundreds of inactive members, people are more inclined to use the search feature to sort through them and each search takes up more resources.[/QUOTE]

[Illustrious]

Manual deletion.. That way you can delete members completely. Members that haven't posted. Have rarely posted and haven't come back in a long time, and you can keep members that are posting. But seriously this forum isn't big enough to need anything of the sorts. Still if you think that it needs cleaning up manual is the way to go. And it wouldn't require that much work, because there simply aren't that many members.

I've been on forums where even manually deleting through a hundred or so members can take an hour or more.

I can delete all members who haven't logged in in X amount of time and have fewer than Y amount of posts.

Fill in the X and Y and we'll see if it's fair, k?

And how many users do you have? and 500 is hardly worth mentioning... But even if it was this place doesn't have that and manual deletion is still a very good option...

Unless you want to go around manually deleting, I'm not sure the administration spares that kind of time. Both Janus and I are pretty busy.

The key here and this is something I have always noticed in forums managed by you guys is going over the top and hoping for a huge ass forum that you simply don't have... Spam isn't spam in an introduction thread. Spam isn't spam in an chatter thread, it isn't spam in a photo thread. Spam should be dealt with hard in discussion threads, in RP threads or anything of a serious nature. A greeting or something like that however isn't serious and letting it be "spammed" is better then locking it.

Look at the threads that have been closed by Janus or myself.

They have gotten to the point where it isn't even focused on the person being introduced. It is usually a back and forth between a few members.

What's the best way to talk back and forth between 3 or fewer members? IM, Spam Thread, Chatbox, you name it.

Where do you think you would join sooner a place where a lot of threads are locked or a place where people sometimes spam but at least all the serious things are spam free?

Count the number of locked threads vs. the number of open threads.

Count the number of ontopic posts and the number of off-topic (nothing to do with the original topic) posts, and you should see what I mean.

A thread about politics shouldn't turn in to a thread about panties.

[Lord Sorgo]

Fine, I'll manually delete everyone. I got an assload of spare time for the next year. :p

[Syren]

Manual deletion.. That way you can delete members completely. Members that haven't posted. Have rarely posted and haven't come back in a long time, and you can keep members that are posting. But seriously this forum isn't big enough to need anything of the sorts. Still if you think that it needs cleaning up manual is the way to go. And it wouldn't require that much work, because there simply aren't that many members.

Agreed. More time-consuming perhaps but fairer in the long run.

The key here and this is something I have always noticed in forums managed by you guys is going over the top and hoping for a huge ass forum that you simply don't have... Spam isn't spam in an introduction thread. Spam isn't spam in an chatter thread, it isn't spam in a photo thread. Spam should be dealt with hard in discussion threads, in RP threads or anything of a serious nature. A greeting or something like that however isn't serious and letting it be "spammed" is better then locking it.


100% agreed. Those threads such as intro threads that begin with a specific purpose but are guaranteed to turn into derailed threads should be left open for chatter to continue. New members won't read the intro threads looking for particular opinions, but I feel it would be a nice touch for the new members to be able to see that if they were to open an intro thread they'd be welcomed warmly and have a thread where they can post and get to know other members comfortably before branching out into the other boards. Eventually, if you continue closing the welcome threads, the intro forum will simply be filled with closed threads and it certainly does not look welcoming. It's actually quite intimidating.

As for the serious discussion threads and RP threads, people should know better than to derail those and I can understand full well why general chatter is treated as spam in these cases. But it should only be in these cases. For crying out loud, if you carry on this way, oppression will reign and to be honest I'm not comfortable in a 'Nazi' style environment. That's not quite how it is yet, but it's heading that way. This forum is fantastic, don't let OTT control methods ruin it.

In addition, if you need any help at all, I'm happy to oblige. I feel that manually deleting is definitely the fairest option.

[Illustrious]

Agreed. More time-consuming perhaps but fairer in the long run.
So effectively, you want us to open up to human fallibility and biases.

Regardless of how you conduct member deletions, you will have some criteria by which you judge which accounts are to be deleted. If these criteria are not constant, you are simply picking and choosing favorites. That, and the admins are not keen on the idea of hand-picking their biased choices.

Like I said, I can set the following functions for the Inactivity bot:

Number of Days of inactivity before deletion
Number of Max Posts for those eligible for deletion
Number of Max PMs for those eligible for deletion I think I'm being more than fair by asking for your imput on what values you want to set for these variables.

100% agreed. Those threads such as intro threads that begin with a specific purpose but are guaranteed to turn into derailed threads should be left open for chatter to continue. New members won't read the intro threads looking for particular opinions, but I feel it would be a nice touch for the new members to be able to see that if they were to open an intro thread they'd be welcomed warmly and have a thread where they can post and get to know other members comfortably before branching out into the other boards. Eventually, if you continue closing the welcome threads, the intro forum will simply be filled with closed threads and it certainly does not look welcoming. It's actually quite intimidating.
Take a quick look at the Intro Forum and see how many threads are closed. Check which threads are closed. The vast majority of threads are not closed, and a good number of them contain a fair amount of off-topic and stuff that could be classified as spam under the policy.

We've been through this before at the other forums, and I'll be very clear on it here: Introduction threads are for meeting and greeting new members. If you need to discuss a topic, make a thread for it. That's what forums are for: discussing topics of interest. Just playing around in an introduction thread, while appropriate for some time, becomes disrespectful. This thread is extremely long, and very little of it is greeting Nikkolas. Now, I don't mind some socialization, but you guys have a Shout Box, PM features, and all the freedom in the world to make topics to discuss items of mutual interest. When I came in here and said "Hey look, let's move the chatter to the Off topic or elsewhere", that should be the end of it.

Like I said, I'll allow some casual off topicness here and there; we're all guilty of that. And I understand the desire to chatter and play around. But there's a multitude of options for you all to communicate, and Nikkolas' introduction thread is no longer one of them.

The thread has very little to do with the person being introduced (Nikkolas), and everything to do with a back-and-forth annoying and utterly useless banter between members that don't even have a derivation in the posted thread.

Simply because it's in the introduction or off topic threads does not mean you can ignore the spam rules.

As for the serious discussion threads and RP threads, people should know better than to derail those and I can understand full well why general chatter is treated as spam in these cases. But it should only be in these cases. For crying out loud, if you carry on this way, oppression will reign and to be honest I'm not comfortable in a 'Nazi' style environment. That's not quite how it is yet, but it's heading that way. This forum is fantastic, don't let OTT control methods ruin it.

Honestly, the reason this rule is even an issue is because certain members have repeated decided to hijack threads with irrelevant topics and flood it with rapid posts. I have spoken with Janus on this, and we have both come to a unified concensus. We have both even outright stated that a little off-topic is not a problem.

However, if you're going to post a half dozen posts in an equal number of minutes on a consistent basis, we've got a problem. The problem isn't that the forum is being oppressive, it's that people don't know better as you claim. Being off-topic and outright spamming a thread are entirely different issues.

This is not a chatroom, this is a discussion forum.

And if we were Nazi's, we certainly wouldn't have made every reasonable effort to be accomodating (Shoutbox, Spam Thread, etc.).

[Syren]

So effectively, you want us to open up to human fallibility and biases.

Regardless of how you conduct member deletions, you will have some criteria by which you judge which accounts are to be deleted. If these criteria are not constant, you are simply picking and choosing favorites. That, and the admins are not keen on the idea of hand-picking their biased choices.

Like I said, I can set the following functions for the Inactivity bot:

Number of Days of inactivity before deletion
Number of Max Posts for those eligible for deletion
Number of Max PMs for those eligible for deletion I think I'm being more than fair by asking for your imput on what values you want to set for these variables.

Fine, create a general poll of some kind on the variables people would like to use. That way no one can complain once the majority vote has been cast.

Take a quick look at the Intro Forum and see how many threads are closed. Check which threads are closed. The vast majority of threads are not closed, and a good number of them contain a fair amount of off-topic and stuff that could be classified as spam under the policy.

The thread has very little to do with the person being introduced (Nikkolas), and everything to do with a back-and-forth annoying and utterly useless banter between members that don't even have a derivation in the posted thread.

Simply because it's in the introduction or off topic threads does not mean you can ignore the spam rules.

I said it was heading that way. Given time, most of the threads in the welcome forum will have been closed and as I said, it's more intimidating and hardly very welcoming. The policy works but in some cases could be a little more flexible. The intro threads are guaranteed to be derailed eventually, once they have fulfilled their purpose, but I still don't see why this should justify their being closed. Just leave them as chatter threads, they are harmless and, if anything, beneficial to the welcome forum for reasons I mentioned previously.

Honestly, the reason this rule is even an issue is because certain members have repeated decided to hijack threads with irrelevant topics and flood it with rapid posts. I have spoken with Janus on this, and we have both come to a unified concensus. We have both even outright stated that a little off-topic is not a problem.

However, if you're going to post a half dozen posts in an equal number of minutes on a consistent basis, we've got a problem. The problem isn't that the forum is being oppressive, it's that people don't know better as you claim. Being off-topic and outright spamming a thread are entirely different issues.

This is not a chatroom, this is a discussion forum.

And if we were Nazi's, we certainly wouldn't have made every reasonable effort to be accomodating (Shoutbox, Spam Thread, etc.).

Fair enough. As I stated, your policy works and is clearly there for a reason. But instead of having such a constricted policy, apply it to those areas which require it and have it more flexible in the areas where that's possible. The areas are different and serve certain purposes, surely the policy should suit each area in the same way? I'm not asking for lax rules, I simply feel that in certain cases (such as that of the welcome forum), regulations could be shifted to a more comfortable position for everyone.

[Illustrious]

I said it was heading that way. Given time, most of the threads in the welcome forum will have been closed and as I said, it's more intimidating and hardly very welcoming. The policy works but in some cases could be a little more flexible. The intro threads are guaranteed to be derailed eventually, once they have fulfilled their purpose, but I still don't see why this should justify their being closed. Just leave them as chatter threads, they are harmless and, if anything, beneficial to the welcome forum for reasons I mentioned previously.

Fair enough. As I stated, your policy works and is clearly there for a reason. But instead of having such a constricted policy, apply it to those areas which require it and have it more flexible in the areas where that's possible. The areas are different and serve certain purposes, surely the policy should suit each area in the same way? I'm not asking for lax rules, I simply feel that in certain cases (such as that of the welcome forum), regulations could be shifted to a more comfortable position for everyone.
You're still acting as if we close every thread in the introduction forums. I can assure you that I can go into almost any introduction thread and find some off-topic posts. That doesn't mean each introduction thread is closed.

The two threads that were closed included one thread where people were simply "playing around" in someone else's thread after an administrator (Janus) had come by and asked for a cease and desist. It's one thing if the introductee and admin didn't mind, it's another for members to hijack a thread and keep spamming. The other thread was bumped up, and in a single day, over a dozen posts were made in the forums by a select few members, including 5 in a 15 minute span after it was made clear that spam is not appreciated. This isn't off-topic, this is simply spamming.

No policy states that you can not socialize or be off-topic, but keep it in moderation and be reasonable about it, off topic/introductory thread not withstanding.

[Syren]

Noted and understood.

[Fishy]

And just to get back to deletion thing because the spam thing is your choice, agree with it or not it's fine if you want to run a forum that way.

But again automatic deletion means that a computer deletes everything and doesn't keep in mind human variables. You could for instance delete everybody that's been inactive for more then two months and has less then a hundred posts. But perhaps those 100 posts were all in serious discussions and good posts. Meaning that deleting him or her will be a loss of a good memmber that doesn't post a lot but at least posts good posts.

On the other hand you can keep a member account of somebody who left and is hated by all and has no wish to ever return and even if he or she would nobody would accept it, but the account may have more then 5000 posts meaning it should stay.

That's both wrong.

Personal oppinion in managing a forum of this size is very important, seeing as it's supposed to be a community. Rules shouldn't be strict they should be logically enforced. Perhaps if this forum had thousands of members those things would be a good idea. But a forum with a thousand members ussually doesn't delete members either. My account on KMC still existed after at least 2 or 3 months.

Edit: Apparently a previous post I wanted to make didn't show up, so i'm posting it anyway... It's a bit late but still at least a reply to something asked

I've been on forums where even manually deleting through a hundred or so members can take an hour or more.

I can delete all members who haven't logged in in X amount of time and have fewer than Y amount of posts.

Fill in the X and Y and we'll see if it's fair, k?

Now if you would have hundreds of members and a countless flow of new members I would agree that this is the best way. You don't, so I don't see the point.

Unless you want to go around manually deleting, I'm not sure the administration spares that kind of time. Both Janus and I are pretty busy.

Sure I can spare ten minutes a day and clean out the entire forum several times a month...



Look at the threads that have been closed by Janus or myself.

They have gotten to the point where it isn't even focused on the person being introduced. It is usually a back and forth between a few members.

What's the best way to talk back and forth between 3 or fewer members? IM, Spam Thread, Chatbox, you name it.

And you have a point here and I don't care, i'm just saying that a forum doesn't have to turn into a constant chatterbox if you allow people to chat in certain threads and continue chatting there once it starts. Ussually people aren't interested in continueing their conversation in another thread. Thus making the forum less active... But it is a good way to stop spam.


Count the number of locked threads vs. the number of open threads.

Count the number of ontopic posts and the number of off-topic (nothing to do with the original topic) posts, and you should see what I mean.

A thread about politics shouldn't turn in to a thread about panties.

Which is something I completely agree with, just saying that perhaps a middle way would be best. Allow people to chat at certain places sometimes and delete every spam post they make in other places. The serious things should always be spam free,the not so serious things not.

[Sandman]

Honestly, it wasn't always this strict on the spamming.

I think I had something to do with it, and Traya, that time we hijacked the entire forum and posted something near 100 posts in the span of maybe 20 minutes. Fun times though.

FLASH! aaAAHHH AH! (Just for old times sake)

[Lord Sorgo]

Wow, this has just turned into a full fledged debate here.

And this is the announcement section. This is unnecessary commentary.

[Janus]

The issue here is regarding membership cleanout for those who are inactive. I did this same thing manually at the old EoD, so it's not a new process. However, I am open to the idea of their being a vote about the deletion criteria. I do note that Illustrious is giving members quite a long time to save their account, and that if someone is dedicated to the forum or wants to return after some time and has been apparently deleted due to inactivity, they will return. It's that simple. I've done it before on other forums, even though I lost PMs and various posts due to being pruned. Again, the criteria is based on inactivity time (Set at six weeks, which is plenty of time), posts, and the number of PMs. You guys can haggle the limits to those if you'd like; I'll hear what you have to say.

On the topic of spam, Illustrious hit the point straight on- a little off-topic is acceptible, but repeated off-topic after staff warning IS spam, period. I made it a point to derail the spam in Nikkolas' thread and I was effectively ignored. This is NOT acceptible behavior. You wouldn't get gracious second chances at other forums, like KMC. Hell, Illustrious and I decided to open up a Spam Thread (Which is the second time I've enacted on at EoD, mind you) so you guys could have an outlet. This isn't "Nazism" in any sense. As adminstrators we have a right and a duty to maintain order and respect on this forum. Its our job to keep this place running and interesting, as well as protect your rights as a member. The former we do by installing new add-ons, games, plug-ins, skins, sections, etc. We contribute to discussion and encourage it, as well as work in our spare time to make RPs for the group to enjoy. The latter we do by protecting you from unwarranted abuse from fellow members, giving you the option to come to us with any problems you may have, and giving all of you plenty of chances to get acquainted with new rules or events.

Now... Some of you are more guilty here then others. I won't list names because that'd be ridiculous; my point is that the increase in Spam enforcement is not a new thing (I was fighting it at the old IF forums for the past few months), but it hasn't gotten any better. Members are still spamming and derailing threads and they're mostly the same members I had words with two or three months ago concerning the same exact behavior. Hell, EoD wasn't even open a month and I had to close down Intro threads because they became social bars.

So the rule of thumb is simple- if the staff member (Either a global or admin, or the moderator of the section you're in) ask you to cease the off topic and find an alternative method to communicate what are oftentimes silly posts between two or three people, please do so. Failure to do so results in the thread being closed and warnings being handed out. If you have an issue with the judgment and you feel it's unfair, PM us. Don't continue to dispute the staff decision in the thread because that only exacerbates things.

If you're one of the members who was/is occassionally off-topic on certain threads and you're offended by this- well, I'm sorry to hear that. It's not my intention to alienate members who want to play around and socialize. However, you can thank those who continually disregarded my warnings and rules against spam. This is an on-going struggle and a lot of the same members are continually falling into the same patterns.

[Fishy]

Don't delete anybody if they have more then 100 posts...