Sephiroth VS Mace Windu and Count Dooku

[Lord Sorgo]

Sephiroth's rules:

- He can utilize his seven foot Masamune.
- He has the ability to utilize COLLAPSE (EG: He was able to collapse a building and he wasn't even looking at it.)
- His Masamune can withstand the blows of a Lightsaber.
- Sephiroth can utilize his speed spells.
- Sephiroth can fly as well.

Dooku and Mace's Rules:

- Both bear their Lightsabers (Red and Purple)
- They can both use force push and pull.
- They can use force jump and force speed.
- ROTS Mace and ROTS Dooku.
- They can use Lightsaber throw.


Setting is on the Invisible hand's bridge.

[Kadaj]

Can Sephiroth cast Meteor? He'd pwn without it, but it's like a count down clock... makes the battle much cooler... oh, and all Sephiroth has to do is rush them both, and in a couple moves, take them down like he was Grevious takeing down shock T...

[Lord Sorgo]

No, he cannot use meteor . . . And who the fuck is Shock T?!

[Kadaj]

No, he cannot use meteor . . . And who the fuck is Shock T?!
sorry... don't know how to spell the name of that one jedi from CW who had to take on Grevous by herself, in protecting Palpatine...

[Darth_Glentract]

I can never get past the fact that Square had Sephiroth lose to this guy: http://img171.imageshack.us/img171/5166/soraql8.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

[Kadaj]

seriously, it makes me sad... that and he was voiced by a backstreet boy in that game... disgrace

[Veneficus]

I can never get past the fact that Square had Sephiroth lose to this guy: http://img171.imageshack.us/img171/5166/soraql8.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

Well I doubt Kingdom of Hearts is canon... but God... those shoes! AHHHHHH

[Darth_Glentract]

Why not? It was made directly by Square.

[Kadaj]

Well I doubt Kingdom of Hearts is canon... but God... those shoes! AHHHHHH
they have a life of their own almost... it's as though all of his brains are contained in his feet...

[Darth_Glentract]

seriously, it makes me sad... that and he was voiced by a backstreet boy in that game... disgrace

Actually it was a guy from N'snyc.

[Silencer S]

The events of KH are canon for Sora, Riku, Kairi and all of the "KH only" characters.

They are not canon for the Final Fantasy characters.

[Veneficus]

Why not? It was made directly by Square.
Well...

1. How did Sephiroth get into the Kingdom of Hearts world? As I recall... he's somewhat... dead.

2. What was "Mr. I'm just a dream" Tidus doing on some random island... with a wooden sword.

3. WTF was Squall doing posing as Leon... aside from "Oh I failed" bullcrap... and when did the whole Heartless thing happen? After he killed Ultima?

4. What the hell was Cloud doing there? You think he would have done Tifa by now and spead some of that mako genetics of his. Plus it doesnt add up with the FF7 Timeline.

6. And it doesn't add up since Kingdom of Hearts is more a alternate world to mainstream Square canon.

[Darth_Glentract]

I'm not saying that it's canon, like it happened after FFVII or something like that, but that his being able to defeat Sephiroth is canon, as he did. As well as defeat Cloud. And Hades. And Hercules. And Cerberus. And two Titans. And...you the point. They made him ridiculously strong.

[Silencer S]

Game characters can do alot of things. Doesn't mean they did it. I can kill hordes of Dark Jedi with T3. I can nail hundreds of Stormtroopers with Luke.

Sephiroth was an optional fight. Beating him was never confirmed.

[Darth_Glentract]

It's one of the those fights that you don't have to do, but I think it's required to get the full ending of the game, making the game incomplete if you do not do it. In that case it would be canonical that he is capable of defeating Sephiroth as he is 'supposed' to do so.

[Lord Sorgo]

Prove that it's canon, Glentract. It's directly contradicting several facts. Even these facts lack explanation.

[Polaski]

Kingdom hearts is not cannon because it conflicts with the FF series. Also SE even said it wasn't, somewere...

[Lord Sorgo]

I can imagine so.

So, can we get back to Seph VS Mace & Dooku?

[Darth_Glentract]

Prove that it's canon, Glentract. It's directly contradicting several facts. Even these facts lack explanation.

What facts does it contradict?


Kingdom hearts is not cannon because it conflicts with the FF series. Also SE even said it wasn't, somewere...

What sort of reasoning is that? KH is an alternate storyline to FF games, but with the same characters. Plus it's made by the same people and it's more current, so it is in it's own timeline as any FF game. It's just as canon as FFVII or FFX, if not more so.

[Lord Sorgo]

Prove that it's Canon, Glentract. Don't avoid my request.

It's not canon. Want to know why? It collides with Canonical fact and it's not sorely made by SE.

LOL! It's not moreso Canon or even NEAR the Canon level of FFVII or FFX. You're utterly wrong until you prove that you're not.

[Silencer S]

It's one of the those fights that you don't have to do, but I think it's required to get the full ending of the game, making the game incomplete if you do not do it.

Nope. No "full ending" in Kingdom Hearts or KH2.

Sora beating Sephiroth was never confirmed and would have absolutely no bearing on Sephiroth if it was. Simple as that.

[Darth_Glentract]

Nope. No "full ending" in Kingdom Hearts or KH2.

Sora beating Sephiroth was never confirmed and would have absolutely no bearing on Sephiroth if it was. Simple as that.

There are TWO endings in KH that I know of. I am pretty sure that defeating Sephiroth is required for getting the full cutscene at the ending, as well as doing other things like locking every world and recovering all the Dalmations.

Prove that it's Canon, Glentract. Don't avoid my request.

Do you understand the concept of multiple timelines? KH contradicts the FFVII timeline the same amount as FFX does, which is not at all because they are different timeline. Different universe. Same characters. KH is made by the people who made FFVII. They have control over their original characters in the KH storyling. That means that they decided that Sora would be able to defeat Sephiroth. That means it's canon. Get it?

It's not canon. Want to know why? It collides with Canonical fact and it's not sorely made by SE.

I asked you WHERE is colides with canoncial fact.

LOL! It's not moreso Canon or even NEAR the Canon level of FFVII or FFX. You're utterly wrong until you prove that you're not.

READ what I posted next time. Thanks. KH is an alternate storyline to FF games, but with the same characters. Plus it's made by the same people and it's more current, so it is in it's own timeline as any FF game. It's just as canon as FFVII or FFX, if not more so.

Square had full control over all of their original characters. That includes Sephiroth. Disney didn't have Sora defeat Sephiroth, Square did. Therefor it is canon in the KH timeline.


Oh, and seeing as Sora defeating Cloud is canon it's not that hard to believe that he's capable of defeating Sephiroth too, as he's fought plenty of very capable foe. As stated before, he defeat Hades, Hercules, Cerberus, and (potentially) two Titans as well. Now tell me what makes that uncanon.

[Lord Sorgo]

No, it doesn't. The game is not Canon. It's fallible.

"1. How did Sephiroth get into the Kingdom of Hearts world? As I recall... he's somewhat... dead.

2. What was "Mr. I'm just a dream" Tidus doing on some random island... with a wooden sword.

3. WTF was Squall doing posing as Leon... aside from "Oh I failed" bullcrap... and when did the whole Heartless thing happen? After he killed Ultima?

4. What the hell was Cloud doing there? You think he would have done Tifa by now and spead some of that mako genetics of his. Plus it doesnt add up with the FF7 Timeline.

6. And it doesn't add up since Kingdom of Hearts is more a alternate world to mainstream Square canon."

Did you not read what Veneficus posted? It does not add up, and SquareEnix does not officially state that it's Canon that these events happened. The fight with Sephiroth is opitional, so it either happened or it didn't. Not to mention it's in a tournament.

So what's Canon - Sephiroth getting defeated, or did they even fight?

Multiple timelines? That's not proof. I said PROVE THAT IT IS CANON. Can I get any more clear? Show me where Square Enix says that Disney colliding with FF world and such is Canon. Hell, show me where it's canon that Sora defeated Sephiroth, seeing as it's opitional to fight him.


Cool, but it doesn't add up.

Where do you see FF Characters showing up in OTHER FF games? Sephiroth and Cloud showing up in an alternative universe is completely fallible and breaks the Canon completely. Getting it . . . YET?

No, Sora defeating Cloud isn't Canon . . . BECAUSE THE GAME ISN'T CANON!

(BTW, you have the OPTION to fight Cloud in the TOURNIES.)

Not sure enough, because it isn't required.

"The optional bosses first included in the English version were introduced to Japanese players for the first time."

^ The ORIGINAL Japanese version didn't even include Cloud and Seph. Hell, the cutscene didn't even come until they released a "Final" version of the game.

How does this prove that the game is Canon, BTW?

Try again.

[Darth_Glentract]

1. How did Sephiroth get into the Kingdom of Hearts world? As I recall... he's somewhat... dead.

I'm guessing Vene hasn't played the game as he doesn't understand the fact that all of the Worlds are connected. That means that the FFVII world can be gotten to from the Beauty and the Beast world if someone had the right nav charts and a gummi ship. And notice the different timeline. Sephiroth is not dead in the KH world.

2. What was "Mr. I'm just a dream" Tidus doing on some random island... with a wooden sword.

See above.

3. WTF was Squall doing posing as Leon... aside from "Oh I failed" bullcrap... and when did the whole Heartless thing happen? After he killed Ultima?

This was never stated in the game, but in anyacse I fail to see how it makes an alternate timeline uncanon.

4. What the hell was Cloud doing there? You think he would have done Tifa by now and spead some of that mako genetics of his. Plus it doesnt add up with the FF7 Timeline.

See my first paragraph.

6. And it doesn't add up since Kingdom of Hearts is more a alternate world to mainstream Square canon."

What you don't understand is that KH is the highest level of canon when talking about SORA's abilities. The funny thing is that my comment about him losing to Sora was more of a funny joke then a statement that he would lose to Mace and Dooku.

Did you not read what Veneficus posted? It does not add up, and SquareEnix does not officially state that it's Canon that these events happened. The fight with Sephiroth is opitional, so it either happened or it didn't. Not to mention it's in a tournament.

Someone hasn't played KH2 yet. You do not fight him in the tournament in the second one. Furthermor, it's required to complete the game, meaning that it is supposed to have happened in the KH continuty.

So what's Canon - Sephiroth getting defeated, or did they even fight?

As far as KH is concerned, Sephiroth losing to Sora is canon.

Multiple timelines? That's not proof. I said PROVE THAT IT IS CANON. Can I get any more clear? Show me where Square Enix says that Disney colliding with FF world and such is Canon. Hell, show me where it's canon that Sora defeated Sephiroth, seeing as it's opitional to fight him.

I can't help it if you ignore the proof that's already been given.

Cool, but it doesn't add up.

Where do you see FF Characters showing up in OTHER FF games? Sephiroth and Cloud showing up in an alternative universe is completely fallible and breaks the Canon completely. Getting it . . . YET?

Once again: "I'm guessing Vene hasn't played the game as he doesn't understand the fact that all of the Worlds are connected. That means that the FFVII world can be gotten to from the Beauty and the Beast world if someone had the right nav charts and a gummi ship. And notice the different timeline. Sephiroth is not dead in the KH world. " Just because you do not know of other times that it happened does not prove that it did not happen.

No, Sora defeating Cloud isn't Canon . . . BECAUSE THE GAME ISN'T CANON!

Wrong. Read my previous points.

(BTW, you have the OPTION to fight Cloud in the TOURNIES.)

Have you played the game? Do you have any idea what you're talking about? Cloud was hired by Hades to kill Hercules. Sora got in the way, so he fought Sora as well. Plus, it's canon within the KH continuty that Sora beat all of the tournaments.

"The optional bosses first included in the English version were introduced to Japanese players for the first time."

^ The ORIGINAL Japanese version didn't even include Cloud and Seph. Hell, the cutscene didn't even come until they released a "Final" version of the game.

How does this prove that the game is Canon, BTW?

What is your source for the quote?

What is the context. What optional bosses is it specifically talking about?

[Lord Sorgo]

Okay, seriously, stop spewing bullshit.

Where does it say that it is canon that Sora defeated OPTIONAL bosses in the tournament? Can you show me, or are you just releasing shit out of your oral area?

Glentract, the Japanese version did not have the optional bosses. That's fact. It was introduced in the english version later on. FACT. Go play the Japanese version, Glentract.

And no, I asked you for proof that KH is in fact entirely Canon. You lack it.

As far as KH is concerned, Sephiroth losing to Sora is canon.

PROVE IT!


All the worlds in FF and in that world are connected? WRONG!

When have you seen another FF character in a different FF world? Each game is in it's own world. KH completely collides with that law within FF. This is what makes the game void from Canon. When are you going to get this?


Sephiroth does not exist to the KH world. He cannot. This is why the game is not canon because Sephiroth has died. There are no explanations to the return of the characters or the basis on which world they've entered. It's pathetic.

You can't just sit here and slang "Nav charts, fuckin' gummi bears" blah blah blah and expect me to buy that as proof that it's Canon. Considering FF worlds NEVER collide, this is a collision, deeming the game NOT Canon.

[Darth_Glentract]

Answer ALL of my points, then I will answer yours. Don't just answer the ones you want to answer. It's bad style.

BTW, have you even played the first game? Or the second or third?

[Lord Sorgo]

The other ones were completely irrelevant, and you basically repeated yourself; Including you avoiding me asking you for direct proof as to how it's canon, seeing as it directly contradicts ACTUAL canon.

[Darth_Glentract]

No, you stated that FFVII is a higher level of canon then KH. Hence it's your job to provide proof.

[Lord Sorgo]

Are you asking me to prove a negative, Glentract?

In the beginning, I asked you to prove that KH was Canon. Period.

You avoided it completely.

[Illustrious]

Are you asking me to prove a negative, Glentract?

In the beginning, I asked you to prove that KH was Canon. Period.

You avoided it completely.
No he isn't. He's asking you to prove a positive.

He wants you to establish that FFVII is a higher canon than KH, even though they are designed by precisely the same company. Square does not have a rigid canon policy (a la Lucasfilms), therefore, unless they state otherwise, their productions all serve as "canon" for the purposes of discussion. You can't pick and choose your source.

[Lord Sorgo]

I guess you're right about that . . .

But what of the OPTIONAL fight with Sephiroth? Is there confirmation Sora actually defeated him? Hell, proof they even fought; Considering it was an optional fight during a tournament.

The fact that "Well, defeating him unlocks a cutscene" doesn't seem like Canon to me.


BTW, Glentract. You said you HAD to fight Cloud?

"Squaresoft had the ability to include Final Fantasy characters in Kingdom Hearts and incorporated alternate versions characters in the fiction-spanning plot. On Destiny Islands, the player meets younger versions of Tidus, Wakka (both from Final Fantasy X) and Selphie (from Final Fantasy VIII). In Traverse Town, the player encounters Squall Leonhart (under the alias of "Leon"; from Final Fantasy VIII), as well as Aerith, Cid and Yuffie from Final Fantasy VII. Rikku from Final Fantasy X and Irvine Kinneas from Final Fantasy VIII were both originally set to make cameo appearances, but were replaced by Yuffie and Wakka respectively. Cloud and Sephiroth (both from Final Fantasy VII) make appearances in Olympus Coliseum, where the player CAN fight them in the tournaments."

First game, Cloud is an optional battle.

On the second game, you do NOT even have to run into Cloud. His mission is an OPTIONAL SIDE STORY.

And Sephiroth is an optional battle on the second game:

"Sephiroth, Cloud's ever-present enemy, comes along as well, battling Cloud. He is an optional boss."

[Darth_Glentract]

You have to fight him before the tournament as Hades hires him to kill Hercules for him and you get in the way (although it's doubtful that he could have taken Hercules even if you hadn't tried to stop him). It is not optional to fight him that time. It's only optional to fight him multiple times later in the game in various tournaments.

[Kamikz]

Those are optional, and we still don't know how the fight's played out, they could have let him win. I mean, comon, how does Hercules invinsibility disappear because someone tosses a box in his head?

[Cobain]

Sorgo, I assume you have never played KH2 because Sephiroth is not an optional boss in that game.

[Veneficus]

The thing is is that Square does have a canon policy. This was seen when they reconned several parts of the FF7 story line and then declared some previous work noncanon. It was minor stuff, but it does show that Square has a canon policy... abeit not as in deph as SW canon.

Pretty much the KoH games take place in a totally different universe/timeline that isn't canon for non KoH characters that were simply imported in from various Square sources.

[Silencer S]

Sorgo, I assume you have never played KH2 because Sephiroth is not an optional boss in that game.

Nonsense. He is 100% optional. Hell, you can't beat him until you're well over lvl 70. He's just too damn hard.

Most people end the game at lvl 50. I beat my game without him.

[Darth_Glentract]

Those are optional, and we still don't know how the fight's played out, they could have let him win. I mean, comon, how does Hercules invinsibility disappear because someone tosses a box in his head?

The first fight with Cloud is not optional. You HAVE to fight him. You can fight him multiple times later on and yes those, and only those are optional.

WTF makes you think that they let him win? Where is there any support for that? Seeing as Sora took down Hades in a real fight (non-tournament) on Hades own turf in KH2 it's very logical that Cloud still lost when he was fighting his hardest.

And it really doesn't matter in the game play mechanic of how Herc loses him invinsibility, just that Sora can defeat him (although that fight is optional, it is highly likely to be completed in the game, especially if someone is going for full completion which is the more logical storyline).

The thing is is that Square does have a canon policy. This was seen when they reconned several parts of the FF7 story line and then declared some previous work noncanon. It was minor stuff, but it does show that Square has a canon policy... abeit not as in deph as SW canon.

Pretty much the KoH games take place in a totally different universe/timeline that isn't canon for non KoH characters that were simply imported in from various Square sources.

First of all, it's Kingdom Hearts, not Kingdom of Hearts. Just thought you should know.

Second, that in no way proves that FFVII is a more canon source than KH. If you want to proclaim that you have to back it up, which you and Sorgo have yet to do.

BTW, Cobain, in KH2 Sephiroth is still a fight that is not required to beat the game even if it's more likely than not that he did.

[Silencer S]

Let's get back on topic though. Sora has little to do with this fight.

[Veneficus]

First of all, it's Kingdom Hearts, not Kingdom of Hearts. Just thought you should know.

Second, that in no way proves that FFVII is a more canon source than KH. If you want to proclaim that you have to back it up, which you and Sorgo have yet to do.

BTW, Cobain, in KH2 Sephiroth is still a fight that is not required to beat the game even if it's more likely than not that he did.
I'm basing it on the fact that KH doesn't make sense for the rest of the FF canon (which does exist). There are some major contradictions.

Now if you can tell me why you think that KH is higher canon...

As for the thread... IDK really. Sephiroth is limited in room here, but he has the advantage of crazy speed and strength along with a huge reach.

[Darth_Glentract]

I'm basing it on the fact that KH doesn't make sense for the rest of the FF canon (which does exist). There are some major contradictions.

Now if you can tell me why you think that KH is higher canon...

I'm not saying it's higher, I'm saying it's equal. I don't have to prove that it's equal, it's up to anyone else that there is any variation from that no matter which direction that variation leads.

As far as I know, all of the contradictions you stated have already been addressed. If not, tell me whats wrong with the answer (or if I missed one tell me about that one too).

[Veneficus]

I'm basing it on the fact that KH doesn't make sense for the rest of the FF canon (which does exist). There are some major contradictions.

Now if you can tell me why you think that KH is higher canon...

I'm not saying it's higher, I'm saying it's equal. I don't have to prove that it's equal, it's up to anyone else that there is any variation from that no matter which direction that variation leads.

As far as I know, all of the contradictions you stated have already been addressed. If not, tell me whats wrong with the answer (or if I missed one tell me about that one too).

Ok nevermind then. I thought you had said that KH was higher canon.

Anyways as for errors... I mean.

1. Sephiroth is dead... so what is he doing in KH? This is a violation of established FF7 canon.

2. Tidus might as well be dead... seeing as he never actually existed in the first place (or as a dream to be correct). So what is he doing in KH?

3. What is Cloud doing there? I mean did he suddenly just head to KH after DoC? Oh and when did he get a wing?

The only one that could be pheasible is Squall since we have no idea what happens with him after the end of FF8.

This is what leads me to believe that KH takes place in some alternate universe/timeline.

I mean I just really doubt that suddenly Square is going to parade KH as equal in canon to the mainstream FF stuff.

And you know... we have gotten totally offtopic.

[Lord Sorgo]

You have to fight him before the tournament as Hades hires him to kill Hercules for him and you get in the way (although it's doubtful that he could have taken Hercules even if you hadn't tried to stop him). It is not optional to fight him that time. It's only optional to fight him multiple times later in the game in various tournaments.


You're referring to Cloud, correct?

I'm forgetting (Since you brought him up) . . .

How is he relevant to this fight? I don't see him as a participant.

This also doesn't change the fact that fighting Sephiroth in both games is an option.

Sorgo, I assume you have never played KH2 because Sephiroth is not an optional boss in that game.


Lol. I'm going to ignore that and assume you're high if you think Sephiroth is not an optional boss.

[Darth_Glentract]

1. Sephiroth is dead... so what is he doing in KH? This is a violation of established FF7 canon.

I could just as easily say that him dying is a violation of established KH canon. Both games are equal in the canon department, so you can't say that either game is wrong.

2. Tidus might as well be dead... seeing as he never actually existed in the first place (or as a dream to be correct). So what is he doing in KH?

If he always been a dream, then whats stopping the Fayth from dreaming him up in the KH universe? You can't automatically put FFX on a higher level of canon then KH.

3. What is Cloud doing there? I mean did he suddenly just head to KH after DoC? Oh and when did he get a wing?

Presumably there to stop Sephiroth. And like I said before, you can't automatically put FFVII on a higher level of canon then KH. Perhaps he always is supposed to have had a wing.

This is what leads me to believe that KH takes place in some alternate universe/timeline.

I've never disagreed with you on that. I just said that it's canon that Sephiroth lost to Sora and I still think that it is, but I don't have ample proof of that right now. It is canon, however, that Sora beat Cloud; who is Sephiroth's equal, so it's certainly not beyond reason that Sora defeated Sephiroth in the first game, as it's a tournament so neither would have been killed, leaving very little impact on the rest of the timeline.

How is he [Cloud] relevant to this fight? I don't see him as a participant.

Because he is Sephiroth's equal and he lost to Sora. Hence it's very possible that Sephiroth canonly lost as well. The point, plain and simple, is that it has been shown that Sora is capable of defeating Sephiroth in a fight; that there is no credible evidence to him not having done that, even if evidence that he did do it is also a rarity.

This also doesn't change the fact that fighting Sephiroth in both games is an option.

But it means that there Sora has the ability to defeat Sephiroth. It means that there is no argument against him being able to defeat Sephiroth, putting the idea of Sora canonly defeating Sephiroth as neutral, if not for the idea of Sora beating Sephiroth. Plus it's just funny that Sephiroth lost to a guy who lost to Sora.

But this is way off topic.

[Lord Sorgo]

Sephiroth didn't lose to Cloud. He virtually outclassed him, Glentract.

Sephiroth is magically more powerful than Cloud and smashed him around the ENTIRE fight in AC. He also had him at the end and spared him, Glentract.

And WTF? If the fight didn't even occur, how does that show that Sora can beat Sephiroth? The fights optional, so it might not have happened. Your logic is straight fucked.

[Darth_Glentract]

Sephiroth didn't lose to Cloud. He virtually outclassed him, Glentract.

Sephiroth didn't lost to Cloud? Go watch AC.

Sephiroth is magically more powerful than Cloud and smashed him around the ENTIRE fight in AC. He also had him at the end and spared him, Glentract.

From what I saw, Sephiroth lost to Cloud fair and square. Kadaj agrees that Sephiroth was taken out by Cloud, and I'd say he's seen it more times then half the people here put together. Sephiroth made a bad move and got caught by Cloud's Omni-slash... oh and by the way... I have heard that you guys believe Sephiroth let Cloud Omni-slash him... that is bunk... As Cloud lunges at Sephiroth, Cloud makes a move that looks like he's going to attack, but instead throws his sword, almost hitting Sephiroth and flying past his face, attracting his attention... Cloud uses this moment of distraction to begin his attack, and once it starts, it doesn't stop...

Why would Sephiroth spare Cloud?

And WTF? If the fight didn't even occur, how does that show that Sora can beat Sephiroth? The fights optional, so it might not have happened.

Because Sora took down Sephiroth's equal. Plus, it's more likely then not that Sora defeating Sephiroth is the canon way the game was supposed to be played because you are supposed to fully play the game, not skip every fight possible.

[Lord Sorgo]

Sephiroth didn't lost to Cloud? Go watch AC.

No, he didn't lost to Cloud.

Sephiroth didn't have a mark from his body when Cloud omnislashed him. And Cloud didn't faint and trick Sephiroth . . .

Sephiroth allowed that to happen. He purposely opened himself up for the attack.

Sephiroth was throwing Cloud around and smashing him into buildings throughout the fight. Near the end, they showed Cloud bending down worn out from the fight and losing energy because he's the suxxors.

Sephiroth elbowed him and kicked him and threw him against that large steel plate-like object. Sephiroth then shoved his sword through Cloud's arm.

He SPARED Cloud, Glentract. What the hell makes you think he could not have jammed that sword into Cloud's face? Sephiroth overpowered Cloud.

Even in the end, Sephiroth still could not be hurt, so he left.





From what I saw, Sephiroth lost to Cloud fair and square. Kadaj agrees that Sephiroth was taken out by Cloud, and I'd say he's seen it more times then half the people here put together. Sephiroth made a bad move and got caught by Cloud's Omni-slash... oh and by the way... I have heard that you guys believe Sephiroth let Cloud Omni-slash him... that is bunk... As Cloud lunges at Sephiroth, Cloud makes a move that looks like he's going to attack, but instead throws his sword, almost hitting Sephiroth and flying past his face, attracting his attention... Cloud uses this moment of distraction to begin his attack, and once it starts, it doesn't stop...

Read above.

Why would Sephiroth spare Cloud?

You've seen AC, right?

He spared Cloud.

Because Sora took down Sephiroth's equal. Plus, it's more likely then not that Sora defeating Sephiroth is the canon way the game was supposed to be played because you are supposed to fully play the game, not skip every fight possible.

Cloud is not equal to Sephiroth. He is the lesser. He got smashed by him. He had the lower hand during their duel and Cloud is nowhere near Sephiroth's level of power, honestly.

If it's an optional fight, don't sit here and tell me them fighting is canon. That's bullshit.

[Darth_Glentract]

No, he didn't lost to Cloud.

Sephiroth didn't have a mark from his body when Cloud omnislashed him. And Cloud didn't faint and trick Sephiroth . . .

Sephiroth allowed that to happen. He purposely opened himself up for the attack.

Sephiroth was throwing Cloud around and smashing him into buildings throughout the fight. Near the end, they showed Cloud bending down worn out from the fight and losing energy because he's the suxxors.

Sephiroth elbowed him and kicked him and threw him against that large steel plate-like object. Sephiroth then shoved his sword through Cloud's arm.

He SPARED Cloud, Glentract. What the hell makes you think he could not have jammed that sword into Cloud's face? Sephiroth overpowered Cloud.

Even in the end, Sephiroth still could not be hurt, so he left.

Why would Sephiroth leave? Why would he spare Cloud?

You can't claim that Cloud was losing because he did defeat Sephiroth like it or not. Sephiroth had no reason to lose. No possible motive.

You've seen AC, right?

He spared Cloud.

Why would he do that? You need a motive.

Cloud is not equal to Sephiroth. He is the lesser. He got smashed by him. He had the lower hand during their duel and Cloud is nowhere near Sephiroth's level of power, honestly.

If it's an optional fight, don't sit here and tell me them fighting is canon.

Cloud still beat Sephiroth in the fight. Sephiroth had the upperhand until Cloud omnislashed him. Cloud won and is his equal.

Are you even reading what I'm posting? Sora defeating Sephiroth is the canon way the game was supposed to be played because you are supposed to fully play the game, not skip every fight possible. It's the logical thing to have happened.

[Veneficus]

Are you even reading what I'm posting? Sora defeating Sephiroth is the canon way the game was supposed to be played because you are supposed to fully play the game, not skip every fight possible. It's the logical thing to have happened.

That's like saying Revan did every possible quest in KOTOR...

[Nai Fohl]

I personally don't see any relevance to the question, if some KH character was able to defeat Sephiroth or Cloud, unless Mace or Dooku appear in KH, which I doubt...:rolleyes:

[Darth_Glentract]

That's like saying Revan did every possible quest in KOTOR...

No it's not, because there are two different endings in KH. The one you are supposed to get, aka the full ending, means that you have to beat Sephiroth (as well as several other side quests that are 'optional'). The two senario's are very different.

I personally don't see any relevance to the question, if some KH character was able to defeat Sephiroth or Cloud, unless Mace or Dooku appear in KH, which I doubt...

Well, Christoper Lee did voice a character from KH (Ansem). Does that count? :p Oh, and the final boss does have lightsabers. But yeah, you're like the fifth person to say that were off topic.

[Lord Sorgo]

Why would Sephiroth leave? Why would he spare Cloud?

You can't claim that Cloud was losing because he did defeat Sephiroth like it or not. Sephiroth had no reason to lose. No possible motive.

Sephiroth outmaneuvered a tired Cloud. Cloud was losing the entire fight. He was growing tired. He could not keep up. Sephiroth played with him like a ragdoll and chucked him into a wall.

He stabbed his arm.

Glentract, he could have stabbed him ANYWHERE at that point. Cloud was half KOed. He had his head turned and was dazed from Sephiroth kicking his ass.

I don't know the motive, but it was obvious Sephiroth did not kill Cloud for a reason.

Why would he do that? You need a motive.

Why wouldn't he? It was clear he had the opportunity to kill Cloud. Crystal clear.

Cloud is not equal to Sephiroth. He is the lesser. He got smashed by him. He had the lower hand during their duel and Cloud is nowhere near Sephiroth's level of power, honestly.

If it's an optional fight, don't sit here and tell me them fighting is canon.

Cloud still beat Sephiroth in the fight. Sephiroth had the upperhand until Cloud omnislashed him. Cloud won and is his equal.

Sephiroth allowed the Omnislash (The one that left him uncut and unharmed.)

Cloud is not Sephiroth's equal. It's obvious Sephiroth is much more powerful.

- Sephiroth had the upper hand the entire fight.
- Sephiroth outmaneuvered Cloud and completely overpowered him.
- Sephiroth spared Cloud and stabbed him in the arm instead of fatally killing him.

Cloud?

- He defended for 90% of the fight.
- Did an Omnislash that left Sephiroth unharmed and basically it was evident Sephiroth allowed it to happen.

Are you even reading what I'm posting? Sora defeating Sephiroth is the canon way the game was supposed to be played because you are supposed to fully play the game, not skip every fight possible. It's the logical thing to have happened.

No it isn't. That's like saying Revan HAD to have defeated every enemy and got every single thing.

Fighting Sephiroth was optional. You cannot say fighting him was canon. You do not know.

[Faunus]

Get back on topic. You can discuss this in the Media or Off-Topic sections. Not here.

[Lord Sorgo]

Sorry about that, Faunus.